acts like foul

[Brunsamf]

8270 MP (more problems?). New brunswick install this summer. Lanes,approaches,state of the art Vector touch screen scoring,Pinball wizard--the whole ball of wax, so to speak. 24 lanes with three servers. First time for this Brunswick team to marry Vector and 8270 MP's. We are now in the process of wiring for short cycle using potential relays. National motors, sweep only for now. Intermitent clean sweep as if it was a foul but goes back to first ball. It happens mainly on the high end on the last four lanes, mainly lane 21 and 23. We have ruled out scoring. While trouble shooting tonight with scoring off and cycling at the chassis, it twice out of twenty times happened. Cycle at chassis, sweep comes down and never stops, sets new rack and goes to first ball. I'm thinking a bad SA,SB and or TA2. I will change switch pac's tomorrow. I'm thinking low voltage and maybe logic timing. Any ideas?

[wb8yjf]

Re: acts like foul

Have you swapped MP boards? I think you might be on the right track with cam switches though...'specially since it only happens every so often...

[8270king]

Re: acts like foul

Disconnect all the foul lights from the pinspotters / scoring. All mine are this way. The customer has to enter a foul. I had a couple lanes that intermittently fouled. The foul light on the mask would flicker. That is how I cought the lane malfunctioning. You have a short.

JK

[John_Galt]

Re: acts like foul

You've ruled out scoring. Please describe how.
I haven't done much tech stuff with the system but based on experience with other systems, and since you say it's confined to a certain group of lanes, I'd suggest deleting and re-loading the scoring software on that server.
I've seen corrupt software do wackier things!

Anyway, putting the software in fresh can't hurt anything.
Good luck, let us know what you find!

[John_Galt]

Re: acts like foul

Was this a fresh installation of pinspotters too? Had they been known to be good before the scoring? Was the previous scoring system capable of auto-SWSR and Short-Strike?

Let me elaborate on my last post. It might be that even though the scoring is off, you're really not sure what connected circuits might be open or closed, or perhaps somewhere inbetween where it could complete the circuit randomly. The only true test of the interface is to completely physically remove the scoring from pinspotter signalling, preferably at the pinspotter-end of the cabling. Indeed, hex signals are used in MP logic, but, well, color me "suspicious" on the interface issue.

Failing all of that, I'd swap switch clusters table-for-sweep, and also move chassis from odd to even. The goal is to find out if the problem follows, stays, or just goes away, of course.

Kingy's suggestion about foul interface is valid also, but I'll bet you would've noticed the mask foul light flicker if you were watching intently, and if the filaments are intact. Also, since you say the sweep doesn't stop at 66, it just runs through, as though you were closing the SA or the SW switches, brings other sources of screwy signal to question before the foul circuit.

It seems as if the sweep circuit is being closed for too long at the outset of these cycles that go awry. It's staying closed until the sweep is on it's way up, or else it would stop in it's tracks in the middle of the deck or wherever, right? On that hypothesis, the test becomes finding what is closing it for too long.

Heh, maybe you've got a bad motor switch, capacitor, or 785502020 and it's coasting. You could swap fields in addition to the switch clusters and chassis. Hell, swap the SWS switch too! What's important is to swap one thing at a time, if you're interested in finding the cause. I've outlined the order in which I would move assemblies from machine to machine, based on likeliness of failure. The rest is up to you.

The sweep motor is running forward when this happens, right?

Good luck!

[Brunsamf]

Re: acts like foul

Tried all that, boards ,chassis,even the whole sever. The Bruns tech (the top tech) found cut lamp cord from the foul unit and at the A&MC box, transposed wires and so on. We found Molex pins crimped on the insulation at the chassis plugs and so on. I have switched stators but not caps or SRS momentary switches or run thru switch. Also changed camera's, dist. boards, found jumpers set for Bruns so changed all of that. The first 16 are UK & the last 8 are 700,XXX but more miles. Previous scoring was FrameWorkx so table wiring still intact for now-also first 16 were ZOT ball detects & last 8 were Stahl's 110 volt detects. All & all, a nightmare mix and match. Should maybe stayed at BRC as 'B' in training. I want to make it clear that I am not bad-mouthing Brunswick, but I don't like Vector. Thanx for your help, I'll keep you posted.

[Lafarge..]

Re: acts like foul

Bruns. I know a guy in Colorado that has a similar problem with his mps. Tell me if you have the covers on your chassis. If you don't some times the RF from florecent light can influence the chassis. We learned this from the Stahls Seventies school that was held here in my center. I didn't believe it at first but if you lights are with in 6 to 10 feet from your chassis some times the Rf can be a problem. Now on to my friend in Colo. He called me and asked me if I had a problem with any empty deck respots. At the time I hadn't. We check in to it with one of the techs from amf and they siad that on some of the MP boards that where of the Mark 5 persuation they would intermitenly go in and out of instructomat and sweep evrything of the deck and switch to first ball. They never told us how to correct the problem other than to replace the older boards.

[Brunsamf]

Re: acts like foul

Thank you all for your help; King, as far as disconnecting foul from chassis and scoring we have tried this to no avail, besides, the owner would never allow this since he stuck well over a mil into a complete remodel & wants them to operate correctly. Astro; As I said, the problem is mainly on the high end but does happen some on the middle server and rarely on the first server. As far as the worst machines on the high end, We even tried the new boards with all the L.E.D's--no difference. The rest are Mark 5. We even tried disconnecting the SS and let the ball detect do the triggering, but then they run like Bruns model A, also removed the APS plug. BTW there is no coasting-checked all the pins, as I said (C1 & C2a) These More Problem chassis as Jamie from Stahl's calls them, are wired differently like Jim Dorson said. I will follow your advice, step by step. Switch pac's first. Also I have adjusted the pod in the server and played with light levels with some success on the low end.

[John_Galt]

Re: acts like foul

Well hope you figure it out and have that rewarding "light bulb" moment.

One other possibility - schmutz shorting across terminals on a wireway terminal strip. Remodeling does create schmutz that may have landed on a terminal strip!

Regards,

[MikeM]

Re: acts like foul

What type of LIU are they using?

Mike

[Brunsamf]

Re: acts like foul

We found the problem. It was the 'J' boxes on the curtian wall. With the new install of Bruns lanes and approaches, they cut the lamp cord by the foul line but never cut them on the curtain wall. 1-16 & 17-24- the high end being the problem. Also in the A&MC boxes so it must have been grounding out. That lamp cord originally went to the old manager's control box. 1-16 and another box for 17-24. Thanx all for your help.

[John_Galt]

Re: acts like foul

I do not understand how sloppy junction box wiring or A&MC wiring would result in the problems you've described. If I had to place a bet on that, I'd call it bull****.

[Coors]

Re: acts like foul

Originally posted by Brunsamf:
sweep comes down and never stops, sets new rack and goes to first ball. Any ideas?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats an instuctomat cycle. betthe loose wires were fooling chassis into thikning it was comng off of practice

[JimDorsin]

Re: acts like foul

I would consider the possibility that the install crew crimped a wire or 2 when they were doing there thing???

It could be 2 (or more) wires got crimped and signals are jumping underground, Instructomat seems like a good bet, as that would confine it to a specific bank of machines.

[Brunsamf]

Re: acts like foul

Paul; you are on it. It was most likely signals jumping underground. BTW Thanks for the Humpbacks, they work fine. If you have more, please PM me or the owner Mike Anderson. Astro; I appreciate your help. It is all valid info. Please understand I do not come here to bull****. I am sure that you are a far better mechanic than I am.