No shortened strike cycle

[Alastair]

Have s/s chassis upgraded with Mk 70's and expander cards installed. We have a problem across the house that some lanes quite frequently will not perform a shortened stike cycle.
The scoring (accuscore +) will score a strike, the expander will read a strike also, as indicated by the LED's.
Table will run to feel for pins as in first ball cycle, sweep will run up and machine will sit in second ball cycle with no pins. The customer will have to push the tenth frame button to get a full set of pins.

Has anybody experianced such difficulties?? Where should I start to look?
Camera seems to be ok, as scoring correctly.

[triac]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

If you are running the elco chassis you might need to pinch the “forked” terminals on the chassis. Have you tried to swap chassis to see if the problem moves?

Triac

[Dutch]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

When I was at the Reno Hilton we had the same problem. Never did figure out what caused it.

I won't be installing expanders at Patriot, mostly for that reason. Although it does save a little wear & tear on the machines, 99% of the bowlers don't know the difference & the other 1% don't care.

[wb8yjf]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

Let me get this right, the table is holding the pins in the air while the sweep runs back to zero (ie: sweep reverses) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Is that right?

[amfpinboy]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

We tried to use the expander boards also. Half of the time the machine would feel for wood and very often they would pick up a few pins and go into a false strike and spot a set of wood. The cells and studs took a beating. Only three machines out of thirteen operated properly. We ran out of things to replace or switch, trying to make them work. Hundreds of man hours were wasted over a three month period. The F.P.S. jumped up about 20% or more during this trial period.
The idea is great, but '89 Accu Score and expander boards didn't work well together.

[lustre king]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

DO you have cameras or accu-sonic? The thing that hangs under the deck light.

[lustre king]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

Did you pull your table cables out?

[lustre king]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

Just a note, I have put in or been involved with expander boards in about 20 centers and have good results everytime.
I have done Mendez, Qubica, AMF, 12 strike and Big B.

Amfpinboy accu-sonic don't work with expanders. last I heard. also pinboy do you have the jumper in the middle of the expander board in the right spot?
Alastair pull your table cables. Sounds like a wire off. Pull the table cable off by the Motor Cap. Or in the wire channel.

[Coors]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

ive never had a prob with expanders. i dont have them at my current house . . .yet. but the previous houses i did eagerly and without a prob. most common probs for non-shortened strike cycle are
- respot wire touching frame (after a few months i just remove all wiring to prevent this problem.
- there is a jumper on the expander for relying on camera only, or going by camera and wires as well.
- omega tek board has faster time delay diode, so machine starts default table run before camera gives it information
- junk in chassis. any stray signal will inhibit short cycles. had one chassis in which little sweep contact from allen bradley relay got lodged just right in bottom of chassis, prob from me throwing it against the wall, giving it a gravity test.

[Coors]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

main thing i feel expanders help, is preventing the fingers from being "flung" open on a strike cycle. tremendously reducing wear and tear on pivot posts, and prevneting the occurance of bent parts, grooved parts. with expanders fingers simply open and close and respot speed, much nicer.

[wb8yjf]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

yep..on all.... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[Rep]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

We have the same problem... We don't get the shadow racks though as our cables are still in (this is one of the main reasons we haven't pulled them). We set the jumper so that the table isn't always grounded and it will set pins. Also for some reason this problem seems to occur more since we upgraded to the 5.32 eproms a while back. No idea what causes it but you're not alone

[the old dirt man]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

scoring signal not getting to chassis fast enough. machine time delay too fast for scoring.
what type of scoring do you have [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[lustre king]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

If I remember right with speed-up on the mk-70 the LED lights on expander do not show strike.

[Alastair]

Re: No shortened strike cycle

Thanks for your replies. Glad to see that i'm not the only one!

Triac - our chassis has elco plugs
Wb8yjf - machine does not hold pins in air. On a strike the table will come down as in first ball, sweep run through, then table back down and up and sweep back home. As in normal first ball cycle.

Lustre King- we have both cameras and accu-sonic in our house as have large gaps between 2 lots of machine pairings. But we haven't expanded an accu-sonic lane yet.
We have also pulled out table cables in alot of our machines, but I have recently stopped doing this on new board installs, to try and solve this problem. But doesn't seem to.
Coors - the jumper is set to read of the camera. Unsure about the delay of camera signal to default table run. The camera delay is set by the ABC. I think it states around 3 seconds before the machine / camera must score.
Agree with you that it saves a load of problems with finger cells, pivot shafts and what not with the table. Mainly caused by a wire off. If the fingers are opening violently on a strike cycle then the cell set-up should be looked at.
When the expander records a strike it is shown by the LED's. It just so happens this state is shown when no LED's are lit. Or a binary value of 0.

We run Accu-score plus. Version 4.21 and 7500 series CWC.

What do think about the problem lying within the non-return from zero circuitry?

Surely Omega-tek have not designed this closed looped micro-processed system with a flaw in it? (I don't think so)
There must be an answer to this problem?