Shortened strike cycle failure

[Alastair]

( 82-70SS MK 70 and expander)

Occassionally this lane will not complete a shortened strike cycle. This is what happens,
The scoring will record a strike on grid and expander board will also read strike as no led's lit.
Sweep comes down and sweeps through pin deck, returns to 270 and stops. The table will then feel for pins, Ie, the spot solonoid doesn,t engauge, and the sweep will return to zero with table up and fingers closed.

Things that have been done.
- Swopped out chassis to see if boards at fault / relays. Nope.
- Checked C1 pins for damage. ( 3 connected for spot solonoid) All ok.
- Used C2A tester to test all switches on machine. Found no connection from TA1 open to chassis. Fixed that but still problem continued.
- Changed out table cam unit. Nope
- Checked for grounds in mask unit wiring. None I could see.

Have probably overlooked something simple. Problem seems to be on machine side. How can I jump the elco plug on the chassis? Believe it is terminals 25 and 26 on the plug. But when joined together machine wouldn't run. (when jumping 5+6 on A+MC plug)
Any thoughts most welcome!

PS. Strike light doesn't come on when this fault occurs and no 2nd ball light either.

[wb8yjf]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Pins 2 & 28 on Elco will jump the mask switch. What kind of scoring do you have?
Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[Alastair]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Thanks Wj8yjf.
Accuscore + Version 4.21

[JimDorsin]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

any chance the table coast?? If the actuator on the Table drive goes too far under the 'flag' before it stops, the eccentric wont 'open up'. also, if you have a broken roll pin in the latch assumbly for the 2 parts of the eccentric drive, it will, also, not pull the tab out of the slot, and you will get what you are describing.

Good Luck

Paul

[felix]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Check Bin Switch Wires That Could Be Rotten in Wireway......Also, The Control Box White Circuit Breaker Will Make The Spot Solenoid Buzz?(Usually)

[wb8yjf]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Paul has a good point. Could be a bad capacitor in the wireway allowing the table to coast a bit at times (might want to do a cont. cycle of machine w/o backend on & the bin switch activated to simulate a X cycle & watch it for awhile). Have you tried swapping the CWC out with a known working pair? A bad CWC can cause this problem (rarely). Let us know!
Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[felix]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

JON SEVERT; Which Paul? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Is your table wiring still in by any chance? If so it could simply be a grounded cell. If a wire is off and grounding out, the machine will do EXACTLY as you describe. The scoring sees the strike and records it, and tells the chassis to sweep the deck but the chassis has the ground coming from one (or more) cells and it will not spot pins. Simple thing, but we have your exact setup (we still have our wires in) and when a wire is off and grounding this is exactly what we get

[wb8yjf]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

JimDorsin :p

[misterx]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

The last time that I saw this it was the add on machine triggering causing the problem. If the time delay is too long on the triggering and the machine is just a little too slow to cycle you will get an invalid 1st ball signal. It can also be caused by the MK-70 board itself.

[Alastair]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Have already swopped out the 1 table and 1 sweep capacitor related to TS17.

Jumped mask plug, but no use.
CWC has been changed out. But no go.

Jumped C and D in on Master Circuit Breaker but spot solonoid didint engauge again.
Table eccentric fine. No coast on motor either. Problem seems to be that spot solonoid doesn't pull in. Took C2a plug apart but no aparent debris inside to cause problems. Put in bulb on 2 pin in mask also. But didn't light when fault occured.

Thanks for your help so far. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Any one any more ideas?

[Mark_S]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

From what you describe we has a simialr problem recently.
Have you moved your chassis to another lane, to see if the problem moves. I had a problem like this and it was related to one of sockets for the 11 pin relays in the chassis. What made it harder to find was that it only happened about 1 in ever 50 frames. Once we replaced the relay it was fine. We checked all the usual stuff first though

These are the 2 topic's I started, hope they help
<a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001504</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

<a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001502</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

[triac]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

Alastair,

According to your observations, I would conclude that machine is going thru a short strike cycle but the spotting solenoid is not energizing.

My US schematics don’t have any reference to 3 wires for the spot solenoid only 2. Where are the 3 wires going to on the terminal strips?

According to my schematics the (white) return wire from the solenoid is going to TS 17 (which is always constant.) The black wire is going to TS3. The other wire from TS 3 goes to the female C1 (machine plug) # 36Y. You might want to just change this socket just for good measure.

The way I would troubleshoot this intermediate problem would be to safely rig two 115v lights (220v for yours?) and hook up one light to the terminal strip and the other to the solenoid.

From this set up when the solenoid fails to energize:

If both lights light up then your solenoid (or connection to it) is bad.
If neither lights then you have a bad socket/ pin in your C1 or bad chassis
If the TS lights but the solenoid doesn’t then your wiring or connections from TS to solenoid is bad.

If you narrow it down to the chassis it could be the spot relay or the socket itself

Hope this helps some.
Triac

[wb8yjf]

Re: Shortened strike cycle failure

All the above sounds good! If you have an OLD relay, throw it in the parking lot &amp; run it over (several times) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] If the center lets you spend the $$$ buy new relays (all 3). Old relays can be a BIG time pain in the arse! Just like hmmmmm &amp; Triac suggested, a bad relay socket can drive ya nuts too! (remeber these chassis' are older than dirt... :p )
Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]