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ok time to convince the owners to start buying these one by one, but they want to know the following:
1.what do they need wanting to use pindication
2.will it work using Computer Score ECT 1999 version
3. what advantages do you get using the expander
4. what are the pros and cons with upgrading to these.
Jerry is right, they are the best replacement in the industry and with a LIFETIME warranty, you can't go wrong! The pros are: they are far more reliable, they eliminate the need for the 3 capacitors in the chassis, they install in minutes. Cons: NONE. The expander will basically give you the equivilent of an MP chassis, short strike cycle, 7/10 "pick" (table dosn't have to feel for pins wihen a 7 or 10 pin is the only one knocked down). Once you try them, you will start using the 5 boards for target practice! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Jon
we have the older style amf mask. lamps taken out due to the 4 board but would like to get it all going again. can you tell me if our scoring will work with these and do we need to have the expander to run the scoring if our scoring will work.
The Omega-Teks are awesome. They'll drive your pindication lights as well as long as you specify that you need that. And as far as reliability? We have 64 lanes and high linage, if we have 2 or 3 MK-70's go a year it's a lot. They are just rock solid! And if they do, ya just pay shipping to send em to Omega-Tek and they get repaired for free, as mentioned they have a lifetime warantee. Great product, cant say a bad thing about em they rock!
All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/
The biggest "pro" to upgrading to the OT boards is that it will rid you of about 90% of your chassis-related problems. The old 5 boards are gone, the capacitors and many of the component trouble spots in the power supply are strapped out, the Auxiliary board is no longer needed, and even if the card connectors in the chassis are beat up a little, the OT boards only require a few of the connectors to be operational. The chassis generates less heat and uses less power to do the same job. The boards are ultra-reliable, and even in the rare case that one should fail, they have a lifetime warranty. IMHO, you can't go wrong with them... for the price, they're one of the best upgrades you can put on your SS-chassis machines. I can't think of any real 'cons' to them other than they are much more sensitive to the T/S camswitch settings, and that's easily taken care of by making sure your cams are kept in tight adjustment and the switches are in good shape... no big deal there.
Your pindication shouldn't be much of a problem as long as you get the boards that have pindication enabled (Ours were marked "No Pindication", but when we started installing them the pinlights worked anyway... dunno what happened there). If the wiring was pulled off the masks, you may have a heck of a job putting everything back in, but as long as your wiring to the mask and the PM plugs on the chassis are OK, it should work just fine.
As far as the scoring, it's the other way around... the MK70EX doesn't control the scoring, it receives signals from the scoring to control the machine. With just the MK70 board in your chassis, the machine will behave EXACTLY as it did with the 5-board setup (except without the board problems)... if your scoring works with the 5-boards, installing the MK70s alone shouldn't affect anything with the operation of the machinery and scoring. You do not need the EX boards right off... they can be added in at a later time. We had Omgeaboards for several years before we had scoring installed... the EX's went in with the scoring system.
When you add in the MK70 board, it connects to the scoring to give you the equivalent of an MP chassis... the scoring can signal the machine to bypass a first-ball cycle and spot a new rack (short strike), can reverse the sweep without feeling for pins if a gutter ball is thrown, and depending on the scoring system, can automatically sweep off remaining pins in the 10th frame for the next bowler, and can perform extended functions from the counter (depending on the scoring system) like being able to cycle or re-rack from the counter. Omegaboards can hook up to a lot of different scoring systems...if your system has the ability to control the machines, you will probably need an interface block of some kind (or some minor wiring mods at the least) to connect it to the chassis of each machine.
I've never work with your scoring system, but being that it's a 1999 version, I'm pretty comfortable saying that it should be capable of machine control... Omega-Tek or the scoring manufacturer would probably be the best people to speak to about how you would go about connecting it.
Once you get MK70 boards, with or without the expanders, you'll NEVER want (or need) to go back to the old 5-board system...EVER.
<span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>
Double Ditto!!
16 years, 40 lanes, high lineage: 5 free repairs.
If, after all this positive input, you or your boss still have reservations, here's a suggestion:
order one MK-70 and one Expander. Put 'em in and check out all the features first hand. You can always sell or trade them away if you're not satisfied. But we're all sure you will be.
PS: How does getting rid of all your table wiring sound? If your scoring does interface with the chassis, then that is what you can do.
if i had my way they would have been in by now. i believe the scoring does control the machine to some extent. i can tell you that is does automatically cycle in the 10th frame.
-with Omega's, most of the components in the chassis become paper weights.
-lifetime warranty (unless your dog chews it or somethin)
-compared to 5 boards, id say 90% of chassis related probs are gone.
-reliable pindication provided as well.
-scoring system doesnt matter as far as traditional cycling.
With Expanders.
-scoring does matter, check with omega or your scoring company
-I think computer score in Aust is Vantech in the USA, which is compatible.
-If the scoring will interface. no need for table wiring, scoring tells the machine whats left.
-no table run if a gutter is thrown (sweep simply reverses itself back up)
-if strike is thrown, table doesnt feel for pins, sweep simply runs through and table spots new rack.
-faster cycle times, less table/respot maintenance
at the current house ive been at for 3 years, never sent a board back. and most are of the 1981-84 era.
Tell ya what, tell your boss to order 1 from me, I'll give you guys 2 months to try it out (I'll double check on the Computerscore compatibility) & at the end of two months, if you don't like them I'LL BUY THEM BACK FROM YOU INCLUDING THE SHIPPING! How can you loose with THAT deal? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
i shall pass it on. thanks for offering such a good deal. does anyone else have any pro's tht i can pass on to make them even more attractive to the owners
How much time have you spent in the last year:
1. Attending trouble calls caused by the 5 boards.
2. Swapping out 5 boards and fault-proving.
3. Repairing boards by trial and error, testing, etc.
Now multiply that time by your average hourly rate.
Now add the cost of parts you've used on boards.
Tell your boss that number before telling him the price of a board. I bet you've probably spent about 3 board's worth in the last year.
We've had 32 Omega-teks for about 7 years. I think we get a failure about twice a year if that. I don't know where we bought them from - I could find out - though sounds like you're getting a better deal from Jon there.
We don't have pindication (hate replacing globes anyway). We don't have expanders. We have computer score front desk and and accuscore scorers. There is no issue with machine cycle from the scorers (because that is part of the machine wiring, not the boards).
[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Tnx Andrew! I think I'm the cheapest around, I REALLY like for guys to get away fom them dinosaur 5 boards! I could work on 5 boards all day long...BUT the Omega Teks are so sweet, why work on 'em at all? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
Jon
Originally posted by 8270kiwi: i shall pass it on. thanks for offering such a good deal. does anyone else have any pro's tht i can pass on to make them even more attractive to the owners
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How many more could they need? Print out this whole thread and hand it to 'em. As the saying goes, "Hundreds of mechanics can't be wrong". [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Bottom line, you can't afford NOT to put these on your machines. As it was stated... just the savings in parts and time doing chassis repairs alone could buy a bunch of them... not to mention the downtime and problems caused by old-tech chassis fruiting up or failing when you least expect 'em to. And since chassis problems are reduced, you are also reducing the chance of C1/C2A/PM plug breakage because chassis won't have to be pulled off or swapped as often.
From the sound of it, you can go with just the MK70 boards and be in pretty good shape. And it doesn't even have to be done all at once... buy a couple boards here and there until they all get replaced.
If your scoring will interface with the MK70EX boards to provide pin-read off the camera instead of the cells, the biggest plus you'll get from them is the fact that you can COMPLETELY eliminate the table cable and all the respot cell wiring. There's a bunch more problems gone forever... no more train wrecks caused by a wire coming off and the table spotting on the standing pin (which also means a reduction in spotting cup breakage and bent table components, and no time wasted hunting down a wire that shorted or popped off a cell connector), no more shorted wires causing the strike cycle to disappear and annoying the bowlers who have to press the cycle button after each strike until it's fixed... no more replacing frayed or broken table cables, and the table will be MUCH more pleasant to work on without all the wires strung all over it. If you have cells with broken-off wire tabs, they can still be used... as long as the adjustment screw is OK, the electrical part can be ignored, again reducing parts usage and rebuild time.
Trust me, when you get all the lanes converted to omega-teks and your 5-boards are collecting dust in a stock room somewhere, you'll see the value... After you go for months on end without even so much as LOOKING at a chassis, you'll really appreciate just how good they are. And one other thing... the less time you are wasting on chassis/cell/table wiring repairs, the more time you will have to do other repairs and preventive maintenance, which can help lower your breakage and lane downtime even more.
Top all that off with good product support, extremely high reliability, fairly low cost, and a lifetime warranty.... it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or an accountant) to see the value in upgrading your machines.
Do your own comparison... get 2 or 4 MK70's, put them out on machines (make sure that the relays and contactor pads are also in good shape while you're at it), do your cam adjustments to make sure that everything is running right, and jot down the date of the install... then see how long it is between chassis problems on the OT-upgraded lanes compared to the original SS 5-board lanes. You will notice a difference.
<span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>
Can somebody give an explaniton how pins 2, 3, 6 are supposed to be connected. I had a shortcircuit there for the drive motor connection because of water leakage.
I have a distributor that is pulling the belt hard to the left in the nine pin position (and possibly 6 pin), but seems fine in the other spots. As you can see the residue and...
I have several Pin Elevators that I believe to be out of round on my XLi's and was curious if anyone has ever run across this before and is so, what you did about it.
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