82/30 vs. 82/70

[davect]

I have seen many posts on this board by mechanics who absolutely adore the 82/30's. I find it very intriguing that so many people prefer an older machine. As a naïve newbie to the biz I was wondering: Which pinspotter do you prefer and why? The 82/30 or the 82/70 (or 82/90)? Allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment: If the 82/30 is/was such a great machine why did AMF replace the model over 40 years ago?

Having never worked on a 82/30 I can't comment on that aspect. But as a bowler I've made an interesting observation at a split house with 82/30's on one side and 82/70's on the other. Most trouble calls were to the 82/70 side. Interesting...

[toon30s]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

I too have wondered for many years why AMF decided to kill the 82-30. Maybe it was overbuilt, like a factory machine? My feelings are that the 82-70 distributor SUCKS!! I also don't like the 82-70 system of closing the respot cells; if one is off far enough, then NONE of them work. I also do not like the method of plugging the chassis to the machine. I have seen the conectors arc together, and what a nice display, fire usually afterward.
The 82-30s have some drawbacks as well. They are a bit more difficult for a big person to get into the pit. If there is a short in the table wiring, you get a constant sweep run. The 82-30 seems to be not as clean as the 82-70. The 82-30 seems a bit harder on pins.
The best things about a 82-70 are the ease of entering the pit and the ease of changing a motor. I'll GLADLY keep my 45+ year old 82-30s, with PBLs and solid state chassis, thank you.

[8270king]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

Originally posted by davect:
I have seen many posts on this board by mechanics who absolutely adore the 82/30's. I find it very intriguing that so many people prefer an older machine. As a naïve newbie to the biz I was wondering: Which pinspotter do you prefer and why? The 82/30 or the 82/70 (or 82/90)? Allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment: If the 82/30 is/was such a great machine why did AMF replace the model over 40 years ago?

Having never worked on a 82/30 I can't comment on that aspect. But as a bowler I've made an interesting observation at a split house with 82/30's on one side and 82/70's on the other. Most trouble calls were to the 82/70 side. Interesting...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 30 sweep mechanism is very suspect to being knocked out of kilter.

The 30 pinwheel toggle / pincounter was eliminated.

The respot cell assembly on a 70 is much easier and has less parts.

The 30 is a good machine....just not as good as a 70......a good mechanic on either will make them run well.....

[smalltownguy]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

Don't forget speed.

A 70 is faster than a 30. This becomes more important if you have 2 shifts a night - as most centers did in the 70's and 80's.

[amfpinboy]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

I broke in on 30's, but I wouldn't want to go back there again. The 90's are great, but the 70's I have will last for another 35 years.

[misterx]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

I started on 30's and I have a lot experience on them however I have to admit that I prefer 70's.

[Coors]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

as far as a bowler. 30's are slooww. especially during practice, a 30 cant seem to fill'm up fast enough. also there is no out of range, or any range on a 30. if a pin gets slid 2-3inches, it just doesnt get picked up period.

as far as a mechanic. as King said sweep gets hit by ball, its a mess. i dont know what everyones prob with the 70 dist is (other than orientation pan) but the 30 dist which goes up and down attatched to the table running around on a little railroad track makes me giggle. and sitting behind 36 of them sounded like i was in a HUGE echoing grandfather clock(all the clicking of the toggles) (i pinchased for a few years on 30's) 30 chassis are archaic (yes i know there are now CTI and OT products for them now) Parts are harder to come by, either gotta have faith in the used parts, or bend over for the few companies still making parts.

Safety: 30's dont have floating tables like 70's. there are a billion places to get a finger snagged or slip around or fall off. Anyone seen the sweep motor/cam/rods on a 30? the clean organization of the front end of a 70 is awesome compared to that of the 30. and the catwalks of a 70 make catching a nap between calls very mechanic friendly.

i like both machines. I respect the 30's hehe, they are our 70's grandma. and both can run awesome if mech is knowledgable and willing. 70's are simpler, safer, cleaner, &amp; much much quicker.

[Coors]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

it must be like, i Luved my century 100 and Gemini. knew every wire by heart (i rebuilt the 100 several times) and took pride in that the old war daggit kept chuggin. but, sigh, times change, and as much as i luved the Century machines, cant hold a candle to a Kegel. So its either do 3 -4 runs stripping and finessing cut wicks, or move on to faster and better

[Toomany10pins]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

Originally posted by misterx:
I started on 30's and I have a lot experience on them however I have to admit that I prefer 70's.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've only seen 30's in action only once, but bowled on them many times and hated them. Maybe it was just the houses I've bowled at but they both were slooowww and both had problems spotting "clean racks". One place was so bad (didnt matter which lane) so you'd re-rack because of pins way off-spot and the next rack would be even worse...... Maybe in both houses those 30's were not well maintained, I don't know.
To those guys that love their 30's and keep them running well and spotting great racks... kudos and more power to you!

[8270_Wang]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

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[DetroitSignal]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

I love 30s after being on 70s. The 30 is built like a tank. Ours have clutch/kidney and Omega-Tek boards. They run awesome! (over 950 FPS without spot/add calls, about 650 with)

30 disadvantages:
slower
mechanical motor switches are no longer available
Its hard to fit between 7-8-9-10 and the curtain
They're like Jungle-Jims
BUT I LOVE 'EM!

70 disadvantages:
distributor
no blackout switches on the table
Chassis plugs

[Clutch Plate]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

Originally posted by JOE C.:
I love 30s after being on 70s. The 30 is built like a tank. Ours have clutch/kidney and Omega-Tek boards. They run awesome! (over 950 FPS without spot/add calls, about 650 with)

30 disadvantages:
slower
mechanical motor switches are no longer available
Its hard to fit between 7-8-9-10 and the curtain
They're like Jungle-Jims
BUT I LOVE 'EM!

70 disadvantages:
distributor
no blackout switches on the table
Chassis plugs

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">70's dont need a blackout switch on the table, it has an interlock feature which is much more reliable than the blackout switch on a 30.


I love my 70's, they are very reliable and they dont talk back, unlike the front staff.


But, if you work on a 70, you better know the in's and outs of the distributor.

[Rep]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

The dist. is definately and easily the weak point of a 70, and I will agree with the chassis plug remarks. I've never worked on 30's but having finally see them I can understand why the 30 guys are so pationate about them. True they may be a bit slow but what amazing creatures! I was in absolute awe just watching. Not to mention the house I saw them in had them in great shape and running like brand new. 42 lanes in a state tourney with 5 man teams on every lane, if I heard 3 calls for the shift it was a lot. I work on 70's and I love them but I definately can see where the 30 guys are coming from, 30's are awesome machines as well and like anything they will run like gold if well maintained... Just my $0.02

[rd]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

but they both were slooowww and both had problems spotting "clean racks". One place was so bad (didnt matter which lane) so you'd re-rack because of pins way off-spot and the next rack would be even worse...... Maybe in both houses those 30's were not well maintained

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This place you bowled at was definitely not well maintained. Maybe it was the '70s that I dealt with, but I always thought the '30 had an advantage on first rack spotting, due partially to the slower, more deliberate speed of the machine.

Distributor: Like most here, I think the distributor on a '70 wasnt really a weak spot, but just not as well thought out as the rest of the machine. When I first set eyes on a '30 distributor I was thinking "what the hell have I gotten into" but after learning the tricks its one of the better parts of the machine.

I actually liked the chassis setup on a '70 better. The '30 chassis is no doubt (in my mind at least) simpler and easier to work on, but the guy that thought up the "J" box design (for those not familiar, its the plug in area behind the chassis with the 1 million wires) should have been fired for drinking on the job. Its not the wires, its the tendency for the plugins to get pushed out that create problems.

Sweep: Im one of the few that thinks the '30 sweep has the advantage over the '70. Yes a hit at the right time will de-rail one, but my personal experience showed that '70 was actually easier to break if it did get hit. In a perfect world this wouldnt be a problem to either machine but...

Pinwheel: no debate, '70 there. There are, as most of us '30 guys here already know and have, kits to convert a '30 pinwheel very similar to a '70 style. After theyre tweaked, they work like magic. A clutch &amp; kidney equipped '30 pinwheel is on a par with a '70.

Table: maybe a toss up here. The '30s are slower and more deliberate and built like tanks. But even though the cups are bigger, thicker and stronger, the way a '30 feeds pins ends up putting more strain on the cups. I liked the fact that a '70 could put all pins on the table, really good for speed, but I remember seeing several shuttle related problems and almost think I remember seeing what I call the "X" frame (not sure of correct term) on one of the machines was held together by bolted on brackets where it had broke in two. I think a properly tuned '30 can outspot a '70. Both machines have good and bad points comparing the '70 scissors to the '30 respot cells (or grippers as I call them). Both machines have histories of problems with the table wiring, easily cured on either with automatic scoring and short strike cycle boards for the chassis.

Simplicity: Even though the '70 is more compact, I think the '30 is simpler primarily due to relative complexity of a '70 table.

Safety: The '30 was built before anybody cared about such things. In the 3 '30 houses Ive been in back of including my own, its like walking around on jungle gym, you need to pay attention to your footing! In the 2' 70 houses Ive been in back of including my on about 15 years ago, with their compact design and wide walk boards the '70s are way safer, no debate.

[Toomany10pins]

Re: 82/30 vs. 82/70

This place you bowled at was definitely not well maintained. Maybe it was the '70s that I dealt with, but I always thought the '30 had an advantage on first rack spotting, due partially to the slower, more deliberate speed of the machine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

You are probably right. Let me say, the place not being well maintained wasnt the mechanics fault, they busted a$$ at the place, it was the owners who was a little too "economical". I heard from the mechanic that certain parts were a "b!tch at that time to get without paying through the nose.