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Sweep wont run


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  • Sweep wont run

    Got 2 lanes with the same problem.

    When trying to run the sweep, the motor will just hum for a while then blow the clixon.

    Have changed MP chassis, changed relays. Neither made a difference.

    When plugging table motor cord into sweep motor, it runs without a problem.

    Is this a problem in the C1, or something else?


  • #2
    Re: Sweep wont run

    Check the capacitors CSM1 and CSM2 in the wireway. Swap caps with another machine to see if the problem follows. Also yes it can be bad wires in the C1 plug.



    • #3
      Re: Sweep wont run

      could be in th motor plug. That is where i would check first just because you know the motor is ok the plug is the first thing connecting to the motor. after that move on back from there./
      They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.


      • #4
        Re: Sweep wont run

        When tapping the chassis (very carefully of course so no burnt eyebrows [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ) it will run, so I'm guessing a loose connection somewhere.


        • #5
          Re: Sweep wont run

          Maybe the machine end of the C1?
          I've had enough of hope & chains.


          • #6
            Re: Sweep wont run

            It can be in the sweep reverse relay or the socket.Try pushing down on the relay when the sweep motor is humming.If the motor runs it is more likely in the socket.Take small slotted screw driver and bend the socket terminals back in this should take care of the problem.......Why do bowlers spend $250.00 for bowling balls that hook of the chart and then complain about no oil.15 year old bowlers now throw more ball than Mark Roth when he was the man.


            • #7
              Re: Sweep wont run

              Oops you change the chassis.


              • #8
                Re: Sweep wont run

                Androoooo, those machines you have, have numbers on the Chassis, these used to correspond to the machine number, in fact it was the only place we had machine numbers, so they had to stay on the right lane and I could always tell when somebody changed a Chassis, I run Bennetts Green for 10 years like this.

                Unfortunately for the next 6 years after I left the mechanics were prone to change the Chassis every time they had a problem, so the C1 plugs got messed up a bit. What you would find is some Chassis would not work on some lanes, meaning they would push in the C1 sockets in the Chassis. So it would be best if you check that the C1 plugs are together properly.

                Next place to check is the Capacitors, a common problem with the Capacitors is the screws holding the wires, when you get them from AMF the screws are too long, this causes Arcing around the wire terminals because you cannot physically tighten them, as a test see if the wires are easily moved whilst screwed in, if so than probable Arcing has taken place and you don't have a good circuit. What you need to do is take out the screws and shorten also clean up any burning and re-fit.

                I doubt there are problems with the Motor plugs, never ever had problems with these in all the time the centre was open. The few times they were opened up all was perfect.

                Good luck.
                always doing my best.


                • #9
                  Re: Sweep wont run

                  some helpful info for you Androooo from the above.
                  have you tried looking in the wireway, or behind the cam switches,perhaps something is shorting across the terminals , fallen into the wireway under the boxbeam cover. Did this suddenly happen.
                  C1 pins pushed back is common.
                  It would definitely appear to be a power problem.
                  May be worth checking the ground in the plug has not become detached, sometimes people are a little over enthusiastic when removing motor plugs, and twist and tug on the cable, causing them to fail.
                  I am not saying you do this, but there are some people who are a little less than careful.
                  good luck and let us know.


                  • #10
                    Re: Sweep wont run

                    We did have a few pushed in pins, and the plug wasn't real crash hot. Fixed up a few wires and pins in the plug, but made no difference.

                    Night mech was going to look at the caps tonight and see what he could do. Will find out in the morning if it worked.

                    Willey, if you saw these machines now, you'd freak out. All we are doing is chasing our tails. Stupid little problems just keep popping up. 3 different sized BE motor stators [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] , coasting sweep and table motors everywhere, half the lanes don't have short X cycles 7/10/gutter pickoff cycles. They were disgustingly dirty when they arrived here... and with the head mech and the other guys only getting 16 hours training TOTAL, we're lost.

                    I'm doing as much as I can, but hey, I only know from what I've learnt here and I'm not even employed there any more... just help out.

                    BTW... Thanks guys for your help. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]


                    • #11
                      Re: Sweep wont run

                      Androoooo, I think I posted somewhere, maybe the Australian site, that the Achillies heel of those machines were the Backend Motor. Unfortunately when I arrived in the centre in 1988, they had a lot of problems with the Backend Motor, being Westinghouse, they used to run too hot, consequently they would dry out the bearings in the end caps which would cause them to wear out the end cap and eventually the rotor would start hitting inside the winding, plus they would warp the rotor shaft which would increase the the problems.

                      What we started to do was fit a new style winding to the motor, made by Brook Crompton, this idea came from a Queensland centre, Capalaba, now AMF I think. We persisted with this for years but it was not reliable, the motor head would fit into the gearbox with a keyed shaft, but they would wear out too fast and leak oil all over the place.

                      We eventually got some new motors out of AMF, they were A.O.Smith, looked exactly like a Westinghouse and were later proved to be just as reliable as a Westinghouse, they were new when I left in 1998, but I did work there 1 day a week in 2001-2002, and these things were junk by then.

                      If they want to try the motor head conversion again than get in touch with Tony Mcfarlane in Queensland, he's the AMF Backend Suppervisor(last I knew), he was doing the conversion, so he had all the tools and supplies to do this, this is something he did as a sideline job.

                      I know the Westinghouse had smaller and larger head windings, we converted all the small to be on the even lane so there was less confusion. We had 1 national motor on the odd lane, never had a problem with it, and 1 G.E. which would chew out the end cap every couple of years.

                      As for the Sweep and Table Motors we only had Westinghouse. They need to convert all to Solid State as the Centrifugal Switches supplied by AMF are rubbish, made in Mexico and hardly last 6 months. The best Solid State Start Switches I found were the ones in a black box about 4 by 2. These things were supplied by Tenpins Parts and Service in Queensland ask for Tom Cupid. I did notice that they were putting on some White SSSS's, but I don't know how well they worked or where they got them from( probably AMF ). Also I used to run the machine with a large leeway for interlocks on the Sweeps just incase they coasted a bit. If I seen the Sweep hitting the Headpin than I knew I had a problem.

                      Maybe this can help, if they want they can ring me at Mayfield Bowl, I don't mind helping out.

                      always doing my best.


                      • #12
                        Re: Sweep wont run

                        one thing to check as well as the connections to the motor plug, get a very fine INSLULATED (it stings a tad if you get a whop from a starter capacitor) screwdriver and pinch the actual conductors in the plug so they make a good contact, if that dosent work, check for continuity on all the cable cores from plug to trunking, it is not uncommon for the conductor inside the cable to break up where it meets the cable clamp.
                        Want your old pins collecting anywhere in the UK? email me on


                        • #13
                          Re: Sweep wont run

                          Will the sweep run if you take the table motor cable and put it on the sweep motor? If it doesn't run likr that and the table runs fine the the problem lies in the motor.
                          There is always more to life, but would someone tell me what it is!


                          • #14
                            Re: Sweep wont run

                            Its sounds like you need to start over.Please change the sweep reverse switch.


                            • #15
                              Re: Sweep wont run

                              Ok... This is the stuff we have done.

                              Changed chassis.. no go

                              Replaced whole C1 plug.. no go

                              Swapped Sweep stator with table stator.. no go

                              Changed SSSS.. no go

                              Checked caps, wire, screws.. no go

                              Disconnected Sw Reverse switch.. no go

                              Checked Sw motor plug.. no go

                              Swapped stator with another lane.. no go

                              Checked wires on switches.. no go

                              Put original stator on.... WORKED ALL DAY!!

                              No wonder we're lost


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