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Respot problem - 8270

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  • Respot problem - 8270

    Ok guys, I normally work on 30s so I am limited in expertise on 70 adjustments...

    I have a machine at a private installation that had bad table jams caused by poor pinfeed. Pinfeed problem is gone but the spot/respot rods got bent enough to screw up the machine operation. Straightened both rods and did spotting adjustments with no problem. All ten pins spot correctly. The respot cells will not function correctly at all. I can get them to close and not open, OR open and not close. All individual adjustments have been made and there are no worn links or balls.

    To describe what happens. I run the table down to feel for pins and the fingers close. When I run the table back down, the PAWL will not go far enough up the shifter link to open the cells back up again. Is this caused by the 2594 link? I can't seem to get the adjustment right. The gap between the pawl and shifter link is set at the standard pubic hair adjustment recommended by most. Please help me!

    Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Re: Respot problem - 8270

    Just a quick question first... what happens if you reach in and close the cells, then run a spotting cycle? As the cups swing, the cells should draw or snap back open so the spotting cups can swing through them. Are they opening OK like that, or is there a problem with them not opening far enough there was well?

    If all the 'standard adjustments' are done, and there's still a problem, you may have a bind in the table that is overcoming the drive on the cells to open them. If you were getting numerous table jams, there's a good possibility that you have a bind because something got bent. Usual problem causers: The "boomerang" pivots along the 1-3-6-10 edge of the table, or the pivot of one or more cells.

    Also a common bind-causer from table jams is when one of the aluminum stringers gets mashed down low enough to catch on the pivots of the cells. This can usually be seen by climbing in under the table with a flashlight, and the opening/closing the cells slowly by hand. Check each point where the stringer crosses above each cell pivot... if you see a bright, clean scratch or scrape mark on the stringer, there's an area that's hitting and could be causing a bind.

    There's also the process-of elimination method of checking for a bind... move the respot assembly open and closed slowly to get a feel of how it moves, then disconnect the #1 pin and move the linkage again. With a normal, working cell, there will be only a slight change in the resistance you feel when operating the linkages. Reattach the #1 cell link, and move to the #2. Do the same thing to all 10 cells (9 if the 7 pin can't be disconnected). If at any time you disconnect a cell and there is a notable difference in the movement or 'feel' of the linkage, that cell should be pulled and checked for problems.

    While you have each cell disconnected, also check it for correct movement on it's own (open/close it, then leave it closed and swing the fingers to their full arc each way. Make sure that if the machine has the older-style U-shaped slides, that a slide hasn't broken off, leaving the roll pin exposed to get caught on the edge of the frame and cause a bind).

    Another problem that regularly gets missed is when one of those cheap little squares of metal that holds the linkage ball to the stringer comes loose, and does not hold the link firmly in place. This especially becomes a problem when the master link is the one that is loose. If you find any loose ones, replace the metal piece with a regular 1/4"-20 Stover nut and tighten... it'll probably never come loose again.

    Good luck!
    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Respot problem - 8270

      There is 2 green springs that run the respot. Make sure one is not broke. If your gap is right &amp; the point of the shifter link is pointed just above the pawl. I'd be looking at the springs,pivot's or fingers. Also look at the wireway at the 1 or 2 pin area. If it got bent out, it might be rubbing on the support tower at that point.

      G-man has a much better post......I've been 20 minutes typing this......tournament today...busy
      Even a old dog can bury a bone

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      • #4
        Re: Respot problem - 8270

        Thanks guys! I go back there before work tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Respot problem - 8270

          Well GMan,

          I am certain that there is just too much drag on the cells when I open and close them, so I figure I probably have bent pivot studs like you said. I am pulling every cell out and checking each one before I reinstall it. I ordered a bunch of parts, including new carb links (I couldn't even get some of them to turn!)Also, the main spot linkage arm on the front of the machine is almost worn off at the top from that spotting rod being bent, so I ordered another one. I will reset all the spotting first and then re-tune the respotting. This machine is turning into a nightmare. But that what happens when no one is hired to do regular maintenance. I'll keep you posted.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Respot problem - 8270

            One question for everyone...who actually has their master carb link set at 3 1/16 inches per the manual?? I set mine there and I couldn't get the 7-cell to open all the way, even after backing out the bell crank stop bolt!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Respot problem - 8270

              Manual is a starting point only. You will have to tweek each machine alittle diferently. Untill you get good smooth open &amp; closing. None of that will matter much.
              Even a old dog can bury a bone

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Respot problem - 8270

                Joe,

                You’re on the right track inspecting bent studs and wire way links.

                Regarding the length of the master link, this is one area of the book I don’t use as a starting point. I found the best way to set the master link is in this order:

                Adjust the respot finger to the batwing as close as you can without it touching.

                Put table in spotting and stop it at 180.

                Disconnect all the links including the master.

                Adjust the thin respot rod so that you have the slightest play on the banana arm to the cam bearing. The less the better.

                Adjust your master link so that the #7 is fully open with the least amount of play on the finger. Don’t get this too tight.

                Adjust the rest of the links so that none are tighter than the #7, I prefer the order of 4,2,1,9,5,3,8,6,10. The order is not that important just what I found works best for me.

                Raise the table to zero and adjust the width of the all fingers when closed with the tiny bolt that is used to ground out the pin lights.

                Hope this helps some.
                Triac

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Respot problem - 8270

                  Couple more things:

                  On my machines I’ve removed the little tiny spring by the crank arm. The RSC’s seem to work smoother.

                  After all your adjustments back off the stop bolt to banana arm. Close the RSC’s and adjust this bolt so that it just touches. Then turn it in and keep lifting the arm every time you turn it to check that the cells open smoothly without a snap. There are a few here that back the bolt off all the way, but I don’t like that snap. The book calls for 4 turns but I have found ~2 turns is usually sufficient.

                  Triac

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Respot problem - 8270

                    This machine is turning into a nightmare. But that what happens when no one is hired to do regular maintenance.

                    You hit the nail on the head, Bud...

                    From what you're describing, pulling and checking each cell sounds like a very good idea... in fact, I think I would probably disassemble, clean, and relube each of them, too. Cells can get a lot of drag and cause bind problems if the bushings in them get cracked or very dirty... One area that is a sure trouble-causer from bad bushings is the cell pivot arm, or a bent cell pivot. It's nearly impossible to 'eyeball' the steel pivot pins. I usually pull them out and roll the pin along a flat piece of steel plate. if the threaded end 'wobbles' as the pin rolls, it gets tossed in the heap and replaced.
                    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Respot problem - 8270

                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by TheGMan143:
                      [QB] This machine is turning into a nightmare. But that what happens when no one is hired to do regular maintenance.

                      That also happens when people ARE hired to do regular maintenence.....

                      hey , Old school and i were talking the other day, and you may fit in with this line of thinking. I inherited a bunch of 30 year old neglected '70's which i faithfully continued to neglect for several of my first years here. I got to thinking about how frustrating and pointless (for lack of a better word) it can be to just change out one part or one assembly when it needs it. How about swapping out the whole shibang?! I have plans underway to build a table. Casting, cells, X frame, shafts, bearings, actuator, EVERYTHING..... wheel that sucker under the pinsetter and swap out the whole damn thing. Take old beat up, bent, non-respotting, free-play-in-everything, dirty table over to the bench and rebuild it at your leisure over the next month. Repeat 24 times, in my case, errr, 23, and i dunno if its a feasible project, but im doing it anyway. That reminds me, Jaime from Stahl's has one or two castings left i think if you need em, they are soooo much cheaper than buying a new $900 one. Good luck and high scores
                      The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it which the merely improbable lacks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Respot problem - 8270

                        Hey G,

                        I think while I have all ten cells out of the machine and getting checked, this would be the PERFECT time to get the spotting zeroed in better. Nothing to f--k up if the cups come down wrong! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] By the way to clarify for everyone, these are 82-90s with the 70 table and no gripper protection switch.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Re: Respot problem - 8270

                          Wang,

                          That was lane 1 (which works fine now). Lane 2 is the problem at the moment. But yes, this is the same place.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Re: Respot problem - 8270

                            We are good to go! Bent pivot studs and some bad carb links changed, and a little tweakin'

                            Thanks for your help guys!

                            Comment

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