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  • delayed backend shutoff

    Since we switched from accuscore to qubica the machines have no delayed shutoff backend motor.
    Qubica shuts the machines off by using the mask switch. In the early accuscore days, the mcu sent a signal to the chassis. This signal tells the chassis to shut down the table and sweep motor and let the last pins fall in the bins before shut down the backend motor.
    nowdays we have some pin jams because some pins are laying just before the trip arms when the machine has been shut off. this results in in jams after start up.
    Anyone who solved this problem by using a time relais or something?

  • #2
    Re: delayed backend shutoff

    That’s a new one on me. Do you have the six-box or f-box installed? These components are your machine interfaces. The comm line is supposed to go to the six-box (or f-box). Then your wires from there will come out of the six-box to the a&mc box for pinspotter control.

    If you open up the six-box the first terminal strip is for the even machine and third terminal strip is for the odd machine. The 3rd and 4th terminal of each of these strips is your manager control wires that should go to a&mc terminals 5&6.

    This is our setup. Don’t know if your system is newer than ours and require something different.

    Triac

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    • #3
      Re: delayed backend shutoff

      Hmmm...that's strange. The mask switch is in-line with the manager's control circuit, when broke, the pinsetter will "cool down" for 60 seconds. Either by using the on/off switch at the desk, back end box, LIU, it's all controlled by the manager control circuit. (M Relay).
      "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

      --Kat

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      • #4
        Re: delayed backend shutoff

        Part Number:

        Am I right in thinking you have 8290's? If you do the A&MC box is gone. Unless you put a AMF Source Command box into the scoring circuit the machine will have no time delay on turnoff.

        Gary Oliver

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        • #5
          Re: delayed backend shutoff

          Yea... something definitely strange there. On the 82/70, you will still get a backend delay if the masking switch is activated. There are a few 'mods' that could cause that (like substituting a small relay for the thermal time delay module), or maybe an M/M2 problem causing it.

          odd...very odd...
          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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          • #6
            Re: delayed backend shutoff

            There is no back end delay on the 90's from the mask switch.
            Tim
            HBOwner

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            • #7
              Re: delayed backend shutoff

              Ditto that on our 70's if the mask switch is thrown there's still the time delay on the B.E.
              All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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              • #8
                Re: delayed backend shutoff

                The time delay on the 70 is driven through the "H" relay which is a thermal relay in itself. It holds open the M relay until it cuts off. Anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes in the house I work, some even longer.

                As G-man says you may need to replace the relay (if you have 70's)
                Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

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                • #9
                  Re: delayed backend shutoff

                  We have 82-90 chassis. The MCU-box is gone after qubica installation.
                  the former amf computer switched the lanes on and off using the MCU

                  The mask switch, which is now in use by qubica, has always shutted the backend motor off directly

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                  • #10
                    Re: delayed backend shutoff

                    For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the 8290, it has two modes of operation: [1] Normal mode, where it is under the control of the Managers Control Unit (MCU) at the desk, and [2] Manual mode, where it is operated from the chassis. In normal mode there is a time delay for the back end, but in manual mode there is not. When Qubica was installed in our house - and maybe even today - the system was NOT connected to the MCU. Instead, the machines are operated in Manual mode and the scoring turns them on and off with a relay wired in series with the masking unit switch.

                    We still have an MCU connected to our machines so that we can change some parameters, read the frame counters, etc. But since Normal mode is not used for control of the machines, there is no back end delay.

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                    • #11
                      Re: delayed backend shutoff

                      Back end delay and all of the other functions usually associated with the chassis on the 8290 can be enabled with the installation of a AMF Source Command box The AMF box is hooked to the MCU and each machine through Qubica's 6 Box. Very easy to hook up but probably very pricey I imagine. The advantage being the 90 works like a 90 is supposed to.

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                      • #12
                        Re: delayed backend shutoff

                        The simpler and cheaper way (but also the longer way around the horn) to get a backend delay is to use a 110V coil time-delay relay. You attach the existing backend motor supply wiring in the front end wireway to the coil of the relay, then feed direct 110V from the RS plug or terminal strip through the contacts of the relay and then to the backend motor. When the power drops off the coil of the relay, it will hold the contacts closed for a set period of time before opening, effectively giving you a time delay in manual mode. Drawbacks are that the delay cannot be canceled by powering off the CB on the machine (like the delay on the 82/70), and it will double the time delay in normal mode.

                        Cheaper than changing the wiring and connections up front, though.
                        <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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                        • #13
                          Re: delayed backend shutoff

                          Tom Niedermeyer got mad at me one time when I worked for AMF when I pointed out that there was no time delay when you shut the machine off using the mask switch during a safety meeting. He insisted there was a delay on the BE motor even if you use the mask switch, so I shut it off and no time delay. This was in front of about 10 of our employees, from that day on, he didn't like me too much. Oh well.
                          Charley
                          82-70's SS Chassis Omega-Tek w/expanders
                          2009 Qubica scoring 3QT's and 6 box.

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