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XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

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  • XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

    I'm sure that we've all know about the 82-90 XLI's new way of running and stopping the combo motors with no cams or wires. While thinking about this one day I came up with this idea and I'd like to get some thoughts on it and what you think the chances of it becomming a reality.
    We all kown how the XLI operates and functions. The thought is to make an encoder kit the would fit into a 82-70 combo motor via the rotor shaft where you would insert the crank, and then secure the encoder to the motor. This might be done through the end bell screws and some form of brackets. You get the picture I hope. The encoder will then be tied to an interface box that has all the software, hardware, and the necessary controls to operate the motors. The connections to the chassis will be made through the C2A plug via a plug system that eleminate the table and sweep switch signals going into the chassis and replace them with the new signals from the interface box. The rest of the wiring in the C2A plug will pass through the plug and continue as normal. The starting and stopping of the motors will be handled as they, the motors, were designed to, via the mechanical or solid state relays. If this could be done I bet it would cost about a third of what the full XLI upgrade would cost. Since most of our combo motors and chassis are running good, why go through the expense of replacing them. I'm sure that one reason would be to standardize and have only motor in the field and not have stock parts for all the ones out there. It might be time for them to stop thinking about themselves and think about their customers and ways to better existing equipment. We keep them running, buy their products, and then at their whim decide to drop what we need, when there are thousands of them in the field, because they want to discontinue it. All right for now I'm off the soap box. Back to the topic. Everything seems to be logical in the way it's laid out, so it should work. Software and the basic hardware are now out their. It's just a matter of putting it all together. If there are enough replies we just may start something that may be good for us all. I've started it, now let's hear from the rest of you. YES or NO on the idea.

    AMF DOCTOR
    The doctor makes house calls.
    AMF DOCTOR
    The doctor makes house calls.
    http://s427.photobucket.com/home/AMFDOCTOR/index

  • #2
    Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

    Im sure the idea will work. We have enough intelligent people on this site to create anything.

    I have never had any problems with the cams. Basically, set them and forget them. I really like the way the 70's were designed. Even if I had the choice of keeping the 70's or getting the XLI's, i would stick with the 70's.


    Doc, if you decide to create your idea, good luck and keep us posted.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

      In the UK a company has designed a motor for 70's or 90's which incorporates digital technology. The combi uses a digital controller giving it almost infinte speed control, forward or in reverse. The controller dispenses with capacitor braking and once the main power (live 230v feed)is connected, is controlled by a low voltage DC signal. The contactor is now only switching 24 volts increasing the life of the contactor by a massive amount.
      This variable speed can be used to simulate the using of the crank handle, or can help in spotting of a bad pin or multiple spot problems.

      A seperate unit can be purchased to add onto the table / sweep drive shaft. This encoder unit does away with the sweep or table cams, and can be linked into the chassis and motor.

      I have 3 of these motors coming soon and am very keen on trying them. Will post my thoughts on these and more technical details as I learn more.
      Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

        AMF Doc,

        Just go with a 90XLi upgrade, they gut all the old wiring, motors/gearboxes, chassis, and install the latest equipment.

        Works great!

        John
        Please.....follow the instructions!!

        John
        804-240-4982

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

          John Isbell, you forget that if you change a chassis , it will take up to ten minutes to set the sweep stopping positions. Try telling a league bowler, or a manager, that it is a chassis problem and after replacing it, it takes you ten minutes as the machine cycles with the sweep all over the place and they are watching you from the top end and you have no control other than a couple of degrees at a time until it remembers where it is supposed to be !!!They are not impressed by it taking so long , when cams can be tweeked in SECONDS.
          maister

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

            Not if you can keep a spare on hand and preset the timing before you have to use it that way all you have to do is give the new chassis a lane adress. The chassis new should be pretty close in timing atleast that is what the techs from amf said. I guess we'll see.
            They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

              any one rember KISS keep it simple useing 1 chassis for 2 lanes was a dumb idea to start now to have to reset combos when u change the chassis
              is dumber lol long live 70s

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                Some guys are scared of technoligy. I just can't wait to see the new wiring. I evolve with the machins first kickers to pbls then 5 board chassis to MP's than auto score with our Respot wires I can't wait till the next new big thing comes along so I can't take it apart and see if it can run better.
                They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                  I'm not familiar with these XLI cam encoder thingies (sorry Doctor [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ).

                  Could someone please give a technical explanation on how they work?

                  Some questions to get the ball rolling:
                  1. What is in the encoder (is it a slotted disk type with optical detection)?
                  2. Does it send pulses to the chassis for counting (like the Silver Bullet lane machines)?
                  3. How does the chassis know where the stopping positions are - i.e. how is the zero position determined as a point of reference?
                  4. Why is re-calibration required when changing a chassis, and is this necessary if you stop the machine at its zero position (can it use that as a the new point of reference)?
                  5. What benefits does it have over cams?
                  6. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I heard or read that these things self adjust - am I dreaming?

                  Thanks,
                  Andrew.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                    Andrew you can pull up the Chassis manual from the amf website I did And printed it it is real cool.
                    They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                      Thanks Lafarge. Good idea. I had originally figured that a manual wouldn't answer my questions, but I'll check it out.

                      Cheers,
                      Andrew.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                        you would probablly not want to fit the drive encoder to the motor rotor shaft like i think doc's original post said i belive that the higher rpm would cause acuracy problem you could set up a hall sensor type of arangment similar to what you may find in a car distributor look when it all comes down to it solid state would be great but in all seriousness it's just not required micros can be a pain but when you have had enough of them fail you find that diagnosis is not a difficult task

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                          Andrew Here the answer To your questions 1 yes 2yes 3 It counts the degrees like 360 or 180 4 every motorand chassis are diffrent and the address has to be set 5 Less wiring more acurate 6 The camers help to self adjust but the chassis still control time delay data and stopping. I hope this kinda helps anyone with any questions. And I hope to here from some of you guys when they get installed.
                          They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                            Thanks for the answers Lafarge. Kudos.

                            Cheers,
                            Andrew.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: XLI THOUGHT FOR 82-70

                              Here's my 2 cents: Since all combo motors do not brake the same, you would be adjusting sweep first guards, for example, at anywhere from 60 to 80 degrees to get that "perfect" guard. The braking on the new motors is supposed to be exceptional.

                              Comment

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