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  • National Motors

    Is there a manual that tells you how to test and rebuild the National Motor? I have been shown how to change the brushes and SS switch but that is all. It seems a lot of the motors run great on the bench but on the machine the sweep motor at 1st guard triggers the klixon.I need more information so I can fix these motors.
    Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

  • #2
    Re: National Motors

    Not The New. Sounds like there is somthing binding up the motor or you might have a bad Start Capacitor or bad wiring to the motor. If your table motor plug is long enough try plugging it in to the sweep motor and see if you can run the motor with the table contactor or switches. if so you have the beforementioned problems. If the motor still don't want to rum then my guess is it is in the motor. This is just a starting point first find out exactly what is going on. Also if you want to I think you can still get the national book from Amf not sure if not then someone else can helpyou on here.
    They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: National Motors

      I will contact AMF for the manual.The problem goes away when you change the motor.
      Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: National Motors

        Sounds to me like it might be in the Start winding.
        They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: National Motors

          So how do you fix that? Or is that the end of the motor?Any chance you have the part # on the manual?
          Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: National Motors

            No you have to have the motor rewound if that is the problem. there is alot of places that can rewind motor just look in you local phone book I've had them done before for about 75.00. Pm Mike stalker he could give you some mor info on the manual
            They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: National Motors

              Thanks.We use to have a good motor guy 8 years ago but he retired and sold the business.I will ask around.
              Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: National Motors

                It might be your start winding, but, if the motor is starting and braking on the bench but triggers the clixon if it's on the machine there might be a short to ground in one of the wires between the motor plug and the windings that you might fix yourself.
                On the machine the motor is grounded and can complete the start circuit without the SSSS or CS closed. On the bench the motor is not grounded and will work good(just don't touch the running motor...).
                Just another thought.
                So it goes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: National Motors

                  It works sometimes then it will start popping the klixon after long use then finally it stopped all together.I have the plug grounded on the bench to avoid shocks.
                  Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: National Motors

                    What kind of SS do you have? Is it a centrifigual switch? If it is a solid state SS then I've heard of those problems. Quailty brand has that problem when they get hot the resistors
                    open up and then it starts triping the klixon.
                    Sorry for the spelling errors.
                    There is always more to life, but would someone tell me what it is!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: National Motors

                      It is a centrifical switch.This has happened before but I do not remember the SS set up.
                      I have Quality switches but will change to the orange canister when they are gone.
                      Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: National Motors

                        Not the New Guy, I've been reading through your posts and trying to figure your problem. Frst, let me see if I've got it straight:

                        1. You have several National motors that when used on the sweep pop the Klixon when the sweep hits 66.

                        2. These motors all have mechanical ss.

                        3. These motors run good on the bench for a period then the Klixon pops.

                        I assume that some motors run fine on the machine.

                        Question: Have these National motors (gearboxes) been recently rebuilt? Maybe they are too tight?

                        Question: Have the carbon brushes in the top of the motor been recently been replaced? With the correct type? Maybe these are causing too much pre-load on the rotor shaft. (Ok, not that likely, but you gotta check all these things out).

                        Question: What, if anything do these motors have in common (besides being all National)?

                        Ray
                        Ray Jordan
                        Cybernetic Solutions/tenpintec
                        Australia

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: National Motors

                          rrev
                          This has happened with other motors but that was before I went to AMFTECH School.I do not remember if they all had mechanical ss but most likely since with the Quality ss you lose reverse unless you rewire.The motors run great on the bench and even run 15 to 20 minutes on the machine with a jumper cord(plugged into the wall not operated by the chassis)with out popping the klixon(after 20 minutes of non stop sweep running i figured the motor was ok).On this last motor I replaced the brushes (Vantage 785 502 020 ) and it worked for two cycles and then died completely.The gear boxes all have been on since I started in 2000.The only thing I have done to the gear boxes is a oil change and swapped some table gear boxes with sweep gear boxes to stop coast.The only common thing the motors have in common is the last mechanic liked to bend the shafts when removing the motors. I think I have gotten rid of the bent shaft motors.
                          Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: National Motors

                            Originally posted by Not the New Guy Anymore:
                            rrev
                            This has happened with other motors but that was before I went to AMFTECH School.I do not remember if they all had mechanical ss but most likely since with the Quality ss you lose reverse unless you rewire.The motors run great on the bench and even run 15 to 20 minutes on the machine with a jumper cord(plugged into the wall not operated by the chassis)with out popping the klixon(after 20 minutes of non stop sweep running i figured the motor was ok).On this last motor I replaced the brushes (Vantage 785 502 020 ) and it worked for two cycles and then died completely.The gear boxes all have been on since I started in 2000.The only thing I have done to the gear boxes is a oil change and swapped some table gear boxes with sweep gear boxes to stop coast.The only common thing the motors have in common is the last mechanic liked to bend the shafts when removing the motors. I think I have gotten rid of the bent shaft motors.
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If the top end is really stuck into the bottom end, prying is the only way of getting them apart. Then you will have a bent shaft. The shafts can be re-sraightened. Do not disassemble anything. Rest the top of the shaft on a vise and using a hammer hit end of shaft until straight. This might take quite a few tries to get it as straight as possible. The easiest way to see where shaft needs to be hit is to lay motor on its side and have the shaft facing you, get down level to shaft and turn it slowly by hand. I have saved a lot of rotor shafts this way.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: National Motors

                              Not the New Guy, I'm getting really confused about your problem.

                              Does the Klixon pop only when the sweep hits 66 (as described in your first post)? Or does it happen at other times as well?

                              When you say the motor died completely, what do you mean? Does resetting the Klixon get it going again?

                              Ray
                              Ray Jordan
                              Cybernetic Solutions/tenpintec
                              Australia

                              Comment

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