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82-70 cycles from back-end switch

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  • 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

    Got a good one for you guys. On lane 42 occasionally while the machine is on, it cycles when you either turn the back end power switch on the back end control box on or off. Sometimes it happens when you flick it up and down rapidly, sometimes it does it when you just flick the switch once, either on or off. Machine has an XOP board with short cycle conversion. Checked C1 and C2 plugs for touching cables. Checked switches in BE control box for touching wires. Any other ideas on what to check for? Thanks in advance.
    Who needs parts, I have duct tape and rubber bands.

  • #2
    Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

    Never did find out what causes this. We have a handful of machines that do this. We have MK-70's and Expanders. Only thing I can think of is some kind of spark or current travelling from the B.E. relay when it opens or closes and the machine is on?
    All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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    • #3
      Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

      This may sound silly, but since this appears to be intermittant, just check there's not a ball idling on the carpet at the time. Flicking the BE switch can cause an idling ball to bump into the cushion and cycle the machine.

      Ray
      Ray Jordan
      Cybernetic Solutions/tenpintec
      Australia

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      • #4
        Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

        Originally posted by rrev:
        This may sound silly, but since this appears to be intermittant, just check there's not a ball idling on the carpet at the time. Flicking the BE switch can cause an idling ball to bump into the cushion and cycle the machine.

        Ray
        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know this isn't the case with us, but a GOOD thought. Always start simple, I like it [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

          Just a shot in the dark, but it might have something to do with the original Instructomat. When the machine was in practice, as long as at least 1 ball hit the cushion, you could switch from Instructomat, to 'off', to 'bowl' before the time delay ran out, and it would cycle the machine.

          Could be that the short little dip in the power causes a little glitch and invokes the 'intructomat cycle'.

          Just a guess.
          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

            The first thing I would do is to swap chassis with another machine to see if problem stays with the machine.

            Next I would take a look in the A&amp;MC box for any wires touching. You can also trace what cycle wires go to what(10th frame, PBC, ect..) and disconnect one at a time to isolate the problem to one cycling component. This could be frustrating trying to duplicate because of it being intermittent, but will narrow down your search.

            Are your cushion switches operative? If so take a look for touching wires or worn parts that could cause the switch plunger not to be held tight. Its even possible you might have a cushion switch going out, if they are hooked up.

            If you suspect your shadow circuit to be a cause (which I doubt, but never know)…You can disconnect the thin grey wire from the T2 secondary and tape it off. This will remove the ground to the logic to the PCBD that activates the shadow circuit. If you do this everything will function normally except you wont have shadow bowl or the frame counter at the desk wont work.

            Triac

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            • #7
              Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

              Ted's thorough suggestions cover it I think.

              But I'm curious - what sounds especially weird is that it happens when you switch it 'off'.

              Is that actually the case - does it cycle when you just switch it off, or only if you switch it off and then on again?

              And I thought I'd confirm - the switch you are turning on and off - is it the non-original 'maintenance switch' (that's what we call it anyway) that duplicates the manager control switch? Ours don't have instructomat position - do yours?

              Or are you talking about another switch?

              The Omega-Tek board has a function to automatically cycle if you turn from instructomat to 'on' without letting it time down. This allows counter to cycle the machine (useful when you don't have a scoring interface I guess - we certainly don't use it though). It's a jumper on the board, so perhaps it's been activated? Long shot I suppose.

              Andrew.

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              • #8
                Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                Andrew,
                Thanks for the credit in offering a solution. :p As you read triac's response, sounds like my sterile comments, don't it? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
                I actually was typing the exact text as triac was, but in previewing, I saw his response, so I just deleted mine.
                I can still, however, get another notch in my post numbers by responding here even though I have offered nothing to the post topic starter who, by now, is questioning most of my o'pines. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
                .
                .
                .
                This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

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                • #9
                  Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                  Originally posted by triac:
                  Next I would take a look in the A&amp;MC box for any wires touching.
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I came back from vacation, I had lane 16 which would not turn on by the Frameter switches. The 10th frame / trigger wires on a chair term were touching the mgr. control circuit wires #5/#6 and did not allow the circuit to complete.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                    Sorry Triac and Ted, you both have so many good things to say I naturally confuse the two.

                    Then again, I'm naturally confused in general most of the time.

                    Andrew (I think).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                      Originally posted by Andrew:
                      Sorry Triac and Ted, you both have so many good things to say I naturally confuse the two.

                      Then again, I'm naturally confused in general most of the time.

                      Andrew (I think).
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its cool Arnie, [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                      I consider it a complement to be mentioned in the same breath as Ted.

                      Triac…
                      aka Ted [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                        Originally posted by Andrew:
                        The Omega-Tek board has a function to automatically cycle if you turn from instructomat to 'on' without letting it time down. This allows counter to cycle the machine (useful when you don't have a scoring interface I guess - we certainly don't use it though). It's a jumper on the board, so perhaps it's been activated? Long shot I suppose.

                        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good thing to know. I was not aware of this feature, as I have the old Omega-Teks that do not need the expander for the smart functions. Now I wonder if he has an intermittent ground to the T2. If he does, pulling the thin grey wire will confirm this is where the problem lies.

                        Thanks for the info.
                        Triac

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                        • #13
                          Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                          Are we talkin' pit motor switch or mechanic added machine ON/OFF switch. Just wondering.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                            Originally posted by triac:
                            </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Andrew:
                            The Omega-Tek board has a function to automatically cycle if you turn from instructomat to 'on' without letting it time down. This allows counter to cycle the machine (useful when you don't have a scoring interface I guess - we certainly don't use it though). It's a jumper on the board, so perhaps it's been activated? Long shot I suppose.

                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good thing to know. I was not aware of this feature, as I have the old Omega-Teks that do not need the expander for the smart functions. Now I wonder if he has an intermittent ground to the T2. If he does, pulling the thin grey wire will confirm this is where the problem lies.
                            </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's on the newer style board (well, circa 1997). It's just above the area where all the jumper wires connect. All it does it connect (via a diode) the instuctomat input (on the output side of the input driver) to the cycle input so that when instructomat is on, it grounds the cycle input.

                            GMan mentioned that while on intructomat, if a ball has been bowled, and you switch to play, the machine would cycle. Note that in this case, the ball triggers the cycle input, which triggers sweep run and stays on until the sweep reaches 66. But since instructomat is on, the sweep run (0 to 66 leg) is supressed (so the sweep doesn't run at all). It then waits until you turn instructomat off (and play on) - the sweep suppression is removed and it runs. It makes it look like turning off instructomat causes the cycle trigger, but it doesn't. In contrast, the OmegaTek jumper does exactly that - causes instructomat to directly trigger cycle (hence no need for a ball).

                            BTW, do many of you folks use instructomat anymore? We do, but I get the impression from other posts that many of you have practice in play mode.

                            JJ - I'm still wondering the same thing.

                            Rep - since you also have had the problem, could you give us more details?

                            Regards,
                            Andrew (aka Arnie).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 82-70 cycles from back-end switch

                              My apoligies for not responding earlier... We still do use instructomat for practice, and our boards are set to cycle when going from instrctomat to bowl with or without a ball being thrown (about 10 boards didn't, but we modified them and added the diode). Despite this it doesn't happen on every lane, just some. Certain lanes you could have the machine on (either from up front via the computer or toggle switch doesn't seem to matter, or from the back control panel which just jumps managers control anyway) anyway you could flip the pit switch on and off 100 times and it won't do anything, but other lanes, you could turn it off once and as soon as you do the sweep drops and it cycles. It's one of those pain in the butt problems that I never really got to dive into. Force of habit anymore that when I turn a pit off I turn the sweep off also and don't turn it back on til I'm done doing whatever and a ball is thrown (assuming the lane is in use). Weird problem to say the least if I get to do some messing around and find anything rest assured I will post!
                              All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                              Comment

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