scary table

[bamm]

I have a table I have a problem with cups hitting pins when respotting and moving pin or knocking it over mainly the 3. I have done table adjustments and changed all bad yoke leg bearings,lightning rod bearings & pins,leveled table,changed bad rod end fittings,inspected table legs (have newer style),inspected pillow blocks & tourqe tube,flagged table,checked for warped cups. If I raise table more than specs it will only do this to the 3 pin. There is a messurement from the bottom of the frame of the side part that 3223 mounts to to the pindeck. the specs are 18 7/8 -19 inches. At the back row 10 side it is 19 3/16. The back row 7 side is 19 5/16. At head pin row it is 19 1/16 both sides. Is this the problem? If so how did it just start giving problems? If I do lower machine frame won't that make problem worst? Besides that lowering frame won't that call for a whole bunch of adjustments everywhere? Or have I overlooked something? I also moved chassis just for s##ts and giggles. The problem stayed. I was thinking about moving table motor, even though I see nothing but smooth operation, and moving table drive also. Also checking table drive shaft, key and splines. Anybody got a solution or suggestions? I thought about opening spotting rod gap more than specs to move pins back and adjust them forward cup by cup. Any thoughts on that as far as what problems that would cause? Any help????????????????
THANKS!!!THANKS!!!THANKS!!!
BAMM

[bent wrench]

Re: scary table

level out the table. when doing spotting adjustments, do them with pins in the cups. when table is driven by motor, 35 pounds of pins makes a big difference. if you are hitting pin heads with cups, you must be decking during spot. i would think so at least. if not, someone will correct me. good luck!

[bamm]

Re: scary table

Table level. I do table adjustments with pins in cups. I am not decking during spot. That is why I am asking the experts. It is just baffling me and my whole crew more me and my assistant.
thanks
BAMM

[bent wrench]

Re: scary table

"X" frame may be a bit bent from pin in table. it doesnt take much. usually less than the eye can see. also make sure that there is no slop in the clevis bearing. "X" frame shaft could also be bent a bit (they are hollow). is the key in the shaft for the 3 pin cup?

[bamm]

Re: scary table

I looked at x-frame buy only for cracks or breaks. No slop in bearing. But I did notice when I had table down in spotting position I had play in back row of cups moving them forward and backwards like checking lightning rod bearings and pins. I will pull shaft out tomorrow (all) and check, also I will
check all keys. THANKS!!!THANKS!!!
P.S.Anymore ideas???


BAMM

[TheLegend]

Re: scary table

When you checked the cups, you checked the width at the bottoms, no? The width of the cup can make a difference in how the cup is mounted to put the pin on spot.

Also... I have readjusted the stop bolt under the front LH yoke leg to hold the yoke farther back. That sometimes will raise the cup bottoms just enough.

[THE 'YOUNG GUN']

Re: scary table

OK, so you've done all of the obvious table adjustments, thats great. You also have knowledge of the correct adjustment height for the machine framework from the pindeck 18 7/8 - 19''. From the dimensions you've given, your machine is way to high, this can happen over a period of many years when lanes are resurfaced & the machine height is not adjusted to compensate for the amount of lane that has been sanded off, what generally happens is people just do a regular table adjustment, & lengthen the clevis 1/2 turn or more to lower the table back down to the 5/16'' required, so when this is done multiple times you may find that on a respot cycle the spotting cups may touch the heads of pins & consequently cause the problem tha you're having. So basically when you lengthen the clevis it not only lowers the table on spotting but also on respotting. So to rectify your problem, you'll need to first lower you're machine to the correct height, this is done by a big square nut that you will find on the studs that you're machine sits on, first you'll need to loosen of the smaller nuts on top 11/16'' socket required, then using a 15/16'' spanner turn down the large square nut & this will lower your machine. Do this in all four corners, tighten up the smaller nuts on top when desired dimension is achieved, be aware aswell that with the back corners you may need to actually tighten up the smaller nuts to actually make the machine lower itself this is due to the front of the machine being heavier. If this makes no sense, you may have machines that are on an older style uni-strut (green rail), in which case your machine will have washer under it, if so: simply loosen the bolt that goes through these washers lift the machine using a crow bar between the uni-strut & the bottom of machine (great if you get someone to help), then just remove washers to gain the required dimension, tighten bolt back up. Hopefully yours will be on the studs with the large nuts as this is so much easier. once you'ver done that you can carry out your regular table adjustments & you should find that you end up shortening the clevis few turns & this will also stop your cups hitting pins on respot. You will also now have to check youre sweep adjustments at gaurd & 4,5,6 positions & adjust accordingly. Then its also a good idea to actually check all of your machine heights & adjust as necessary when doing any table adjustment. Good luck.

[jas]

Re: scary table

before going through all that i would ck the bubble adj making sure that the bubble is 1/2 towards the back if i remember, or just raise the table as long as pins are spotting u will have no problems, however if your fraame is that high u must be double shuttling pins which could also cause x frame problems

[Pindecked]

Re: scary table

I've always wanted to do this....

A)play with the table & get it setting them down rock solid.
B) paint pindeck with a tan epoxy paint( looks like a synthetic deck).
C) put a rack in the cups-crank table half-way down.
D) paint pin bottoms with black epoxy paint.
E) crank table on thru the cycle to set the pins.
F) sit back & let the inspectors figure out what's going on ! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[bamm]

Re: scary table

I tried raising table but that did not help. Yes I checked cup width.I checked 1/2 bubble 3 times.I do not have problem with double shuttle. Now I pulled yoke out and disassembled. I found a shaft that was a little bent. It was the one for head pin. Also some play in bearings. Now to put it all back together and put back in machine and do all the adjustments and test. Will post later if it is O.K. or not.THANKS

[*70*PinMonkey]

Re: scary table

All it takes is for ONE pincup to be hitting a pin during respot for you to think they all are. I had one the other day like this. Went through all the table adjustments, but since the table was too far forward and I didnt have time to flag it and scoot it, i just pulled the pincups way back. The four pin cup , for some reason had to go further back than the others. I watched it respot and i said, sh#t, its too low, the cups are hitting. They werent though. Just the four. Raised the cup and voila!.. still need to flag the table, just wanted to pass on that sometimes its just one cup.

[maister]

Re: scary table

move your table back to 8 1/2" from the rear of the table to the rear of the spots. this means that your yoke will have to be adjusted and the cups will sit flatter under the bin and then they will not tip the pins when they go to respot.check also that the triangle bracket and bolt on the spring hanger on the respot rod are not badly worn. this causes the table to have to be forward to enable the pawl to activate.
good luck.
maister

[bamm]

Re: scary table

I replaced #1 shaft on yoke it was bent a little. It seems to be working better now but I still need to tweak it some.
THANKS

[mardigras]

Re: scary table

Hey Bamm,

Be sure that after you finish it to check your clevis and the bearing in it is not missing anything.
Good job guys

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: scary table

The half bubble adjustment is only there for 1 reason....So the spotting rod adjustment will be correct.
The spotting rod adjustment TIMES the yolk moving backwards so the pins are spotted in the right position. As the table reaches the pindeck the yolk make a sweeping motion rearward to set the pins. This sweeping motion of the yolk is controlled by the spotting rod following the shape of the spot/respot cam. If the spotting rod is too short the sweeping action of the yolk happends to soon and you have to adjust your cups with too much toe-in. If the spotting rod is adjusted too long then the sweeping action of the yolk happends to late and you have to adjust your cups to set the pins flat. So....If you grasp the idea of the yolk movement having to intersect with the center of the respot cell opening when the pins contact the pindeck your ahead of the game and understand the basic operation.

The easy (I tell learning mechanics) is to get rid of the 1/16 gap after you make the spotting rod adjustment. After you udjust the spotting rod for 1/16 inch by using the flat steel ruler as a guage loosen the bolt you used to adjust for the half bubble and get rid of the 1/16 inch gap.