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  • Clutchs and bent shafts

    The other day I noticed that a new gold AMF clutch plate with a new AMF pinion has alittle slop where they meet. A black vantage is such a tight fit that it needs some force to seat the pinion.Is there supposed to be any slop where the pinion meets the clutch plate? Changed a sloppy fit pinion and plate with a tight fit and sanded the thrust bearing and the clutch stopped chattering at 2,4,8 and on the return to 1.The GMan 143 said the chattering is from the thrust bearing.Could also be from a loose pinion and clutch plate? Also the clutch assy. seems to wave a little up and down as the dist. turns. It looks like this on all the machines(RH & LH).Is that just the clearance of the pinon and sleeve on the shaft or many bent shafts?
    Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

  • #2
    Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

    ive had a few vantage pinions and clutch plates which simply do not match up!!,ive had to file the clutch plate to get the pinion gear to fit,ive found that AMF parts work,which is what we pay for.

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    • #3
      Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

      It is a bent shaft.

      The chattering is from a sloppy fit from the rear plate to the pinion.

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      • #4
        Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

        I prefer the tight fit on the Vantage clutch plates with the pinions. In fact it takes a little tap with a mallot to get it to seat all the way. IMHO, this is great; since I know there is no slop from the get go to accelerate wear. I've had no problems with them and order only Vantage clutch plates.

        Clutch wave is caused by a bent shaft usually bent by careless people who whale on the roll pin to get it out; I like to use channel locks to "push it out". However, after converting the house to hitch pins, roll pins issues are nothing more than a memory.
        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

        --Kat

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        • #5
          Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

          Tight fit pinion to clutch plate

          I keep a couple of not too sloppy ones for emergency use only.

          Hitch pins all the way instead of the roll pin. Ridiculous to compromise a shaft at the expence of a roll pin just to do maint on a LH machine clutch.
          Pinspotters do not break down when they are not running!

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          • #6
            Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

            I installed hitch pins last year. I will try a new shaft but but even the RH clutch waves a little. Some mechanics tell me they all wave a little when you watch them(there is play or clearance on the pinion that I think could cause the waving).You guys have mentioned Stahls black clutch plate,is that a tight fit or do you all use vantage? King thanks for confirming my thoery on the clutch plate pinion chattering.
            Well we're safe for now. Thank God we're in a Bowling Center.

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            • #7
              Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

              If you put the Lafarge clutch kit in (roller bearings in the pinion and roller thrust bearings behind pinion and between worm and rear plate) you never have chatter or wear at the pinion/plate keyway.

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              • #8
                Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                Clutch Plate (Mike), you have a bent shaft? No wonder I've been seeing that somber look on your wifes face lately. :p [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                Lifes to short to stress on little things.

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                • #9
                  Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                  If you fill the voids between the plastic anti-index piece thats on the clutch plate that the pinion locks into with ball plug the metal stop blade tab will were out before the keyed connection point between them. 10yrs+.

                  The chattering you here is caused by the inner cluth plate(the one that rides on the plastic worm) moving away from the outer plate and coming back together. When the friction properties of the plate-plasticRing-plate become ununiformed for any reason it sets up a kind of harmonic repeating friction point were the clutch is grabbing more, in 1 or 2 spots, every revolution of the shaft. So in essence the clutch is going through a slip-grab-slip-grab LOOP that is timed perfectly with the revolution of the drive shaft. Every time the clutch releases from its grab on the high friction spot the inner plate moves away from the ring/outerplate and comes slamming back down. This synchronous grab/slip movement of the clutch gets transferred to the stop blade and the indexing cam. When the distributer is in the right position to ASSIST the harmonics you might here the chatter. The force from the indexing cam followers on the cam trying to turn the cam, trying to turn the pinion is a partner in the effect. Gosh Im drunk.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                    Oh yeah, and the sound, i think, is not coming from the clutch plates but trip rod??? Don't know, my hearing not to good anymore.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                      Originally posted by AIR FORCE MECH:
                      Clutch Plate (Mike), you have a bent shaft? No wonder I've been seeing that somber look on your wifes face lately. :p [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did this morning, but it was bent in the UP position. Wanna see Kenny. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                        Originally posted by Clutch Plate:
                        </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AIR FORCE MECH:
                        Clutch Plate (Mike), you have a bent shaft? No wonder I've been seeing that somber look on your wifes face lately. :p [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did this morning, but it was bent in the UP position. Wanna see Kenny. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] ..... NO THANKS!!! I'll pass.
                        Lifes to short to stress on little things.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                          Originally posted by Clutch Plate:
                          </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AIR FORCE MECH:
                          Clutch Plate (Mike), you have a bent shaft? No wonder I've been seeing that somber look on your wifes face lately. :p [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did this morning, but it was bent in the UP position. Wanna see Kenny. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Confucius say... smart man give wife grand piano... wise man give wife upright organ. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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                          • #14
                            Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                            There should be no slop between the pinion and clutch plate, I've epoxied them in to add support, others I see use ball plug, goop etc...

                            I have also seen the outer clutch plate (spring loaded one) bent inward where it rides the worm.

                            This is usually caused when the plate is spun on the worm too far during assembly, this pushes the worm out on the shaft, when the nut is installed and tightend (usually by a newbie with a big wrench)
                            The worm moves back in bending the clutch plate.

                            This can cause chatter, wobbly clutches, loss of hair, etc......

                            I keep a new outer plate to compare with possible problem plates, stack the new and old together, they should meet at all points, if they don't I toss the offending plate.

                            Another chatter issue is poor clutch plate contact with the friction ring (outer one again), I look at the wear marks, if the clutch friction ring is touching all the way around the clutch plate has shiny wear all around, if there are black areas the friction ring is not touching, lack of surface contact area usually translates to increased spring tension to make the clutch work resulting in overheating chattering and other evils.

                            Some of my observations from many classes.
                            Please.....follow the instructions!!

                            John
                            804-240-4982

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                            • #15
                              Re: Clutchs and bent shafts

                              Originally posted by John Isbell:
                              This is usually caused when the plate is spun on the worm too far during assembly, this pushes the worm out on the shaft, when the nut is installed and tightend (usually by a newbie with a big wrench)
                              The worm moves back in bending the clutch plate.
                              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely. We always taught our guys to put the outer plate LOOSELY on the worm, then finger-snug the nut, THEN carefully bottom the outer plate. Keeps the torquing/bending (and the cussing) to a minimum.

                              <a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank"><a href="http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt" target="_blank">http://64.176.142.136/bowl/kbtemp/aclutch1.txt</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
                              <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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