sweeping all pins after 1st ball

[loose nut]

ok im a noob to the 70's and have a few problems

have a few lane that will sweep all pins after first ball is thrown (lanes 13,14,15,16) ( MP chassis, mk 6 board, scoring not hooked up yet)

when the ball hits the back the sweep will wait about 2 secs before moving then it comes down and sweep the pins, it acts like 10th frame cycle but its not the 10 (no scoring hooked up so it doesnt know what frame it is anyway)

some times it will do this several times in a row and sometimes every couple of frames.

these machines had SS chassis before, but now MP 1 has a mk 6 board and another has mk 4, i have just installed these machines and only have managers control wire hooked up, foul is not wired, bowlers table reset is not hooked up (wires are not touching,grounding)

i have seen a few posts with this same problem, but the orignal poster never told the outcome of what the problem was.

[wb8yjf]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

Is the table running or spotting pins after that?

[8270king]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

Is the scoring interface cable hooked up?

[Brunsamf]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

Do a search (Acts like foul). It sounds like the same problem I had last year when I worked at a MP house which just had a new lane install and vector scoring. The old scoring was Frameworx (SP?) and the problem turned out to be a ground fault somewhere under the lanes. We snipped all the old wires at the distribution box on the curtain wall and the problem went away. In the mean time, you could unplug the APS from the chassis as we did and hook up the SS cushion as we did and it should work--hope this helps-Bill

[Superchuck]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

CHECK YOUR OUT OF RANGE SWITCH AND WIRES TO MAKE SURE THAY ARE NOT SHORTED OUT.

[John_Galt]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

There are several good ideas here, as well as Carl's good idea about the mask boards.

In a situation like this, it's very important to go about it scientifically - test one thing at a time, keep track, and keep your chest out and chin up.

In that context, I will also throw out that the sweeps may be running in reverse. Make sure that the wiring is clean around the SWS ans SWSR switches and in the front wireway, and replace one lane's SWSR to see if the problem stops there.

It's hard to fathom what's going on since it's sporadic and on several lanes, but keep faith that you will have the "lightbulb moment" and make it work.

[maister]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

definitely looks like a foul cycle check that the ball return control wire is not connected to the foul unit or the tenth frame wires are not connected to the foul units.I would be looking at disconnecting all wiring to the top end and replacing or metering each pair separately as there may be a break under the lane and shorting on the track or a nail or screw through a wire.By disconnecting from the a & mc box and the foul unit and ball return and tenth frame you hopefully will figure it out and isolate it.
good luck
maister

[John_Galt]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

Hmmm. I would agree except that foul units output 12VAC when the beam is broken, not just close contacts. Also, there is the 2 second wait that happens after the ball hits which is what has me scratching my head.

[triac]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

The 2-second delay when the sweep is at zero is indeed a head scratcher…unless he has electronic triggering and the time delay is out of adj.

As for the sweep running thru without waiting for the table when @ 66…usually indicates a defective TA2 or it is adjusted to far out.

First double check all the cam switch adjustments. Next, I would swap chassis to see if problem moves. Take a look at the cushion switch wires for short. If all ok, I would start with changing of the cam switches.

Triac

[triac]

Re: sweeping all pins after 1st ball

After reading Brunsamf link, Homer suggested that it could be an intermittent ground going to the instructomat circuit that could possibly cause this. Although I’ve never seen this…Homer knows his stuff.

Are you managers control wires running underground? If so, I could see a scenario whereas the ball is hitting this wire temporarily removing the ground allowing the cycle to begin late and the wire finds its ground again causing the sweep to not stop until it completes its cycle.

On a SS chassis if you disconnect the thin gray wire going to the T2 then this deactivates the instruct-mat. Not for sure what color it is on the MP chassis, but it will be the one going to the SP relay #1. If your problem goes away by disconnecting this wire from the T2 (and tapping it off) then you defiantly have a ground problem going to the instructo-mat.

Triac