Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

sweep over-run w/table interlock

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • sweep over-run w/table interlock

    ok so i have got all my machines to turn on and cycle except for one. upon initial inspection i suspected that the brake was worn or maybe even a broken wire.
    diagnosis: when i cycle machine (first cycle) wether it be a button on the CB or throwing a ball sweep runs past zero, table comes down to feel for pins and only makes about halfway down then sweep atarts to run, makes it about halfwy across deck and the whole machine stops movement on sweep and table. at this point i can run table and sweep through with switches in chasis. table run through is fine, sweep run through goes past "zero"? i am assuming zero is where the sweep is at its "ready" position.

    i have tried a different chassis, both with 5 board and omega-tek board in chasis(s). i have rebuilt motor completley as i can with new pieces and even rsoldered some wires that looked like the could be a culpret. i did make an attempt to adjust the micro switches by comparing distance from lowest point on cam to furthest point on lever. still same problem. further more i took it upon my self to try some different adjustments to see if i could find a logical solution, my findings were as followes:
    as near as i can deduct the micro-switch, when engaged allowes the sweep to run (completing a circuit) but on this machine when i depress the micro-switch the sweep will stop at its zero position. now to keep from to much confusion i am refering to the micro-switch on the far left (i believe its SW1) so i tried to reverse the wires so that a N.O circuit and a N.C. circuit are reversed so i could get the desired affect. well after putting everything back to normal (at least the way it was before) and adjusting the micro-switches all i can get out of it is the same problem (obviously) i did discover if i press the middle micro-switch as the sweep comes to its zero position i can get the sweep motor to "brake".

    The book refers to a "ST" gauge. i cannot find a picture or description of what this guage is or how to use it. i have been working on these machines for a litle over a year with no prior expeierence so if you can help please explain it like you were telling a child (i'm kind of simpe minded) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] j/k i just dont understand the termonology, if anyone could please even tell me where in the manual i can refer to some of the tools to use that the manual is refering to. whew, sorry if i just confused you.

    overview of machine and chasis: 82-70, solid state chasis, omega-tek board - no expander board (i use camera for scoring and fingers in cells for machine cycling) electro-mechanical switches in chasis (GE i believe) and motor behaves normal when i move it to a different machine.

    i hope this is enough info to help, thank-you all for your continued help.

    sinceley, Jeremy
    just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

  • #2
    Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

    diagnosis: when i cycle machine (first cycle) wether it be a button on the CB or throwing a ball sweep runs past zero.
    but on this machine when i depress the micro-switch the sweep will stop at its zero position.
    If it is a breaking problem and you have ruled out the motor check the capacitors . I have seen them with bad connections cause this type of problem. Also check the c 1 plug for burnt pins or loose connections.
    I would replace the sweep micro switches and also check the sweep capacitors. check the machine next to it to be sure you have the wires connected back where they belong since you said you switched them around.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

      Sounds Like You have an SB (Middle Cam) wire on the wrong N.O or N.C term. switch those see if it helps.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

        Just to make assistance easier, some terminology:

        The sweep cams are named, left to right (facing them from the front): SA, SB and SC (the S means sweep).

        Confusingly perhaps, the table cams are named, left to right: TA1, TA2 and TB.

        Sweep positions:
        The highest position is known as zero (this is where the sweep rests between cycles).

        First guard is where the sweep is down and at it's front-most position (at the front of the deck). This is also referred to as 66 degrees (because it is 66 degrees of rotation of the sweep drive shaft relative to the zero position).

        Second guard is a similar position to first guard (front of the pin deck, still down, protecting the deck), however it is after the sweep has run though the deck. The position of the sweep shaft at this point is 270 degrees (i.e the shaft has rotated 270 degrees, or three-quarters the way round, to reach this position).

        The ST 2748 gauge allows you to adjust the cam levers. The book explains how. The tool is a small metal bar with two machined ends of specified thicknesses: 0.136 inches one end and 0.176 inches the other. The gauge is inserted in-between the lever and the cam (in it's low position). The thin end should not activate the microswitch, but the thick end should. The result is that the cam lever screw is adjusted such that it switches on half-way between the cam's high segment and low segment.

        SA defines the second guard (270) and zero position. When the machine is not actually cycling, SA also runs the sweep when you hold it out (this is because the sweep is trying to return to what it thinks it zero, which is defined by SA turning off). SA has nothing to do with first guard.

        SB stops the sweep at first guard (66). According to your description the sweep stops late (past 66). This means SB is engaging late. This could be because of the cam or the cam lever (or perhaps a dodgy switch, but I doubt that). You know SB actually works because the sweep does stop (and you 'finger-tested' it too [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ).

        I really suggest getting the right tools and following the manual for a proper sweep cam adjustment.

        However, a less-than-desirable-but-possibly-workable immediate solution is copy another machine that is operating nicely (maybe the one next to the problem machine).

        Put both sweeps at mechanical zero (that is, where the sweep is at its highest possible position). Copy the sweep cam(s) position(s) of the good machine to the problem machine. Also try to replicate the distance between the SB cam and the cam lever roller. It'll only be approximate.

        Then, cycle the problem machine. If the sweep stops late (past the guard position), then turn the cam lever screw out. If it stops early (high), then turn the screw in.

        That hopefully will get SB working correctly (which gives you first guard). Hopefully the other positions are okay already.

        BUT! To do this properly, get the tools and follow the manual [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] .

        This is probably pretty good learning experience for you, so good luck.

        Cheers,
        Andrew.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

          sweep cam guage
          part #030 002 748 Cost around $11.00

          Also you need to use your service manual. It'll walk you thru proper cam settings.

          Although you have a heck of a start with whats been posted
          Even a old dog can bury a bone

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

            thank-you sooo much guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
            i will give it a try, Andrew much appreciation on the education! yhanks for breaking it down, and thamk-you old school i am ordering the part after i post. i will reply with my results.
            Jeremy
            just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

              Andrew, that's probably the most simple, concise and accurate description I've ever read of what the sweep cams are about. It underlines the basic need for, at the very least, an understanding of the terminology of the pinspotter. That way, when we are explaining things to each other, we are all talking the same language.

              Ray
              Ray Jordan
              Cybernetic Solutions/tenpintec
              Australia

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                ok so i drove to another bowling alley here in ca. i bribed one of the mechanics with a jefferson and walked out with a guage to adjust switches on the cams. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                thanks andrew for breaking it down. and thanks to old school for the part # so i will have two [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] .

                ok so i adjusted switches and it still wants to run right through zero to 66 but the table just stares at me. even better now is when i push the button to tell the machine first or second cycle on the rear control box the sweep will run through to about the 5 pin, when i press cycle button the sweep runs to the back of the deck until i use contactor switch in the chasis to return to zero and then its back to the problem. i am going to re-verify the wiring going to switches and waiting for my new ones still. i will keep you posted, until then its my weekend (until i get a phone call of panic)so hope you all have a good weekend.
                thanks again guys,
                Jeremy
                just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                  Thanks Ray.

                  Jeremy - it still sounds like the sweep cams themselves are not in the correct position on the shaft (even if the lever screws are adjusted correctly).

                  Did you compare the cam positions to another machine?

                  Does the sweep actually stop at zero correctly?

                  Regards,
                  Andrew.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                    i did compare to another machine, i was pretty tired when i looked though. they looked comparable to each other. i will look closer, it sounds like i am not seeing something obvious to a trained eye. i will let you know, thnks for all your help.
                    Jeremy
                    just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                      Sounds to me like it might have a mis wired switch on the sweep side. I had that happen to me here at myplace on more than one machine. If you have to look at one that is working properly and write down the colors of the wires and hop that the wires correspond with the bad machine that of course is if you have no wiring Diagram.
                      They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                        pk so wht happened when i finnaly got all the adjustments according to the manual, it solved the bulk of the problem, the sweep was running past gaurd so i didnt read carefully enough and was adjusting the cam assembly when all i neeed to do was turn the screw out about 2 1/2 rotations and problem solved. thanks for all your help guys couldnt understand what i was reading.
                        Cheers, Jeremy
                        just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: sweep over-run w/table interlock

                          Good to hear, Jeremy. And well done.

                          Cheers,
                          Andrew.

                          Comment

                          Topic Starter RibbonScript

                          Collapse

                          Adsense Classic 2

                          Collapse
                          widgetinstance 666 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                           

                          Approach Wear - DBA IQ/Anvilane

                          Our approach panels have a lot of wear at the joint between the first approach panel and the approach/heads panel. Nearly every one has the printed image worn through to various...
                           

                          Rake sweeping out of time, and pin launching onto lane.

                          I work on some nice old Brunswick A-2 pin setters. Most issues I've come across haven't been to problematic to figure out. But being I can't seem to get it to recreate the issue...
                           

                          Strange sweep problem

                          I’m a rookie mechanic and have been working on pinsetters for 2 years. One of my lanes has a problem with a sweep possibly coasting. I don’t know what could be causing it...
                           

                          GSX Distributor shaft bearings

                          Two part topic:
                          1. Plastic bearing (#66) used in place of regular sealed bearing (#51) -- thoughts?

                          2. ANY of these bearings with the black support mount...
                           

                          The Legacy of the A2

                          I was recently disheartened to learn that a bowling center that I once serviced was actively looking to replace their A2's. I understand that most military bases and educational...
                           

                          Table turning on short stroke.

                          Hello dear Bowltech members.
                          First let me say thank you for your time. am plagued by a big issue for three weeks now.
                          our technician is working full time on another...
                          Working...
                          X