Seeking Advice

[simbowling2002 Members Find all posts View Profile Close simbowling2002]

I am really puzzeled on this one. Ball return!!
Still have kickers, there is no way of going PBL's at this time. SO! Balls will not go all the way in to be caught by ball lift. The paddle will push the ball back out, then ball rolls back in but will not go far enough. Happens on odd more then even lane. Seems 13lb and up have this problem. I am totally stumped!
I have replaced: kicker ass'y (new rebuilt), adjusted ball lift height, new fillers ( front & rear), segments ( both ), springs on kickers (w/chain & hook), ball lift alignment, starter pad, shock mounts on bounce board look good.
What am I missing???

Is there something w/ the back ends I'm missing?
Should they be bubble level or tilted? Please help or what little brain I have left will ooze out my ear.
Thanks Sim.

[old-school-mechanic Members Find all posts View Profile Close old-school-mechanic]

Re: Seeking Advice

Check the starter pad. Make sure it didnt slip over. If it's against the filler pad. The starter pad will not move down out of the way.

If the paddle hit's the ball before it has a chance to enter. Try reduction pulley's. It slows down the paddle. Gives the balls alot more time to enter the ball return.

[Universal Revolutions Members Find all posts View Profile Close Universal Revolutions]

Re: Seeking Advice

Nice of old-school to offer assistance. But since few have replied I too will try to help.

To determine if the paddle is the culprit, first try removing the paddle shock entirely from the machine. Work the paddle back and forth with your hand or broomstick to clear any pins. (Also to be sure that the paddle is not hanging up along its travel). If the balls are easily getting in and getting a good jerk by the lift you will know that the paddle is too strong.

If this is the case try switching the paddle shock with a set of lanes that works well. Also, as I recall, there is an adjustment on the eccentric to which the shock mounts on the pulley. Adjust for minimum shock pressure.

If still, you have determined that the paddle is too strong a reduction pulley to slow down the paddle may be what you need. If so send email to me. cjcrowley@adelphia.net

Good Luck,
Chris

[pat Members Find all posts View Profile Close pat]

Re: Seeking Advice

Raise your pit shim it with washers on both sides. I would also get a shieve that is bigger on the paddle drive and a shock from Ed or Vantage from their mini PBL, this will Slow the paddle down should help you a lot.

I would also try a different kicker wheel. If you can put the bigger ones, Ed Fox makes a great one.

I faught this for years. I would also make sure that your ball lift is not to low, and a new starter pad. You can notch the starter pad so it sits a little lower and this also allows the ball to enter further into the exit. Notching my starter pads made a real difference for me.

I hope this helps.

[AMF KING Members Find all posts View Profile Close AMF KING]

Re: Seeking Advice

zot makes a filler plate rubber that is tapered
and helps balls stay in the door also check the alignment of the back end of your pinsetters they may not be correct

[Pietenpol Members Find all posts View Profile Close Pietenpol]

Re: Seeking Advice

I eliminate the paddle by reaching under and holding it to one side when a ball enters. Usually I've found if the ball makes it into the exit but spins, it's the starter pad, or the lift bumper needs to be unscrewed to raise the height a little bit.

[Bluesman Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bluesman]

Re: Seeking Advice

I thoght it always helps to "Physically" Crawl in the machine & Literally push the ball in the exit & Look for the obvious,(It's Just a kicker Assy.&A Rudder w/ A starter pad,Not much to'em. & BTW What type of Kicker Wheels are you using? The white Football Kickers Are the Sh_t!! Good Luck & High Scoring.

[simbowling2002 Members Find all posts View Profile Close simbowling2002]

Re: Seeking Advice

Going after the starter pad ass'y. From my perspective it looks too far back, there for never making contact with the ball & lift belt w/o help of a push.
Going to check the shaft & bearing sleeve for possible replacement.
I'll keep you posted.
Ohh also read something about B/E alignment!!
more input,more input!! high lights on some things to look for, visual inspections for alignment. Want to cover all my bases.
Thanks, Sim

[Lafarge.. Members Find all posts View Profile Close Lafarge..]

Re: Seeking Advice

The starter pad should be in just far enough for the ball to make contact with the ball while the ball hits the belt. If it is to far in it will keep the ball from going in all the way. one thing that I found that helps pull the starter pad away a little is you take out the rubber bushing that sits in a cushion shock and put it on the starter pad arm assembly that rests against the uprail and this will pull the starter pad in and thus giving the ball more room to enter.

[simbowling2002 Members Find all posts View Profile Close simbowling2002]

Re: Seeking Advice

Update:
Replaced starter pad & inspected starter ass'y! Guess what no change! Tryed 3 types of kicker wheels, still no change! Everything is centered, lift belt, front & rear fillers, track rail, kicker ass'y, still the same.

The ball just spins halfway in the hole. There is about 1" before is gets to the starter pad and the same at the lift belt. What gives??? Something is not right! Now what should we try?
For years no problems with these lanes. They are on the end and the last one (lane 28) is our problem child now with this ball return issue.

You guys are the best in the business, so what now! appreciating your help emmencely!
Sim.

[Pietenpol Members Find all posts View Profile Close Pietenpol]

Re: Seeking Advice

When the ball is sitting and spining, can you reach in from back to the kickers lower spring attachment and lift up on the arm? Does this push the ball into place? Also when it's spinning, lift up on the ball lift and set it back down.

[bowlinguy Members Find all posts View Profile Close bowlinguy]

Re: Seeking Advice

Look at this My father and I baack in 1983 went to the national tnt in buffalo and got tickets to go down behind the machines and talk to the amf guys watching the macines for the TNT...We had a pair of machines that had the same problem ...asked this tech and he knew what was wrong...It's the starter pad assmy is bent at the bottom don't know how but got home replaced the whole assmy and the problem went arway for good....Best of luck....David

[old-school-mechanic Members Find all posts View Profile Close old-school-mechanic]

Re: Seeking Advice

Sim

Something has to be holding the ball out. One of the filler plates, A screw, Kicker wheel. With out being there it's hard to trouble shoot. Are your kicker wheel springs hooked to the paddle drive assy ? We need to know of any mods you might have done.

Try going into the other machine. Take the paddle off. Disconnect the paddle drive. Then go inside the other machine with a good flash light. Watch the balls as they enter. It could be as simple as to much tension on the kicker springs. Rear filler plate is loose or not centered, Worn down rubber pads the kickers set on. I've had to use the thicker pads. As the thin ones allow the kicker to set to far forward.

[Brianlah Members Find all posts View Profile Close Brianlah]

Re: Seeking Advice

You inspected the starter assy but did you remove it from the machine?old schools right if theres too much spring tension on your kickers its as bad or worse then not having enough.just noticed Id get rid of the chain and hook right away put it back on as originally designed.what have you got to lose I think youve got way too much tension on the kicker I always set up as originaaly designed. Im not at that center any more but 24 lanes and they average about 3 or 4 ball calls amonth usually because of pins in the ball door.just my opionion.good luck

[simbowling2002 Members Find all posts View Profile Close simbowling2002]

Re: Seeking Advice

I will not have to bother you on this issue with this lane anymore.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Works like a charm. I don't know if it was any one fix or a combo.

Have a safe and Happy Thanx-giving day holiday, for what you gave me I could never repay.
You have my utmost gratitude.

Sim.