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  • cycle switch wired wrong?

    got an 82-70 with a S.S. chasis, omega-tek board, no pindication (in chasis or on masking unit), and the problem is in/on my machine, it does not follow chasis(s)

    ok so machine turns on, can run sweep and table until switch self engages and completes cycle. when i throw a ball to trigger machine to cycle or press the cycle switch on the control box nothing happens. when i press the button to change the machine from first cycle or vice versa sweep drops to gaurd and sweep ceases movement. i can not get a response from the machine there after (well at least as far as completing a cycle).
    obviously this is in the wiring within the machine itself, the wiring in the control box looks to be ok, i compared it to the next machine over. does anyone have any ideas as to where i should focus on first?
    just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.

  • #2
    Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

    Been a long time since I had to deal w/ a prob like that... we pulled out our cushion cycle switches when the autoscoring went in.... I'm trying to remember... I've dealt w/ that problem before. I seem to think it had something to do with one of the OS wires shorted. Again, I am very fuzzy on it because it's been a while.
    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>


    • #3
      Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

      Ck C-1 plug for cracked block or burnt pins if you havent done any rewiring then that rules out wires being in the wrong spot id start at the C-1 plug and ck the of spot wiring and switch os could be inhibiting the the sweep circuit


      • #4
        Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

        Actualy sounds to like low voltage error. I would check the c-2a my self.

        1st things 1st tho. The pindication my be a completly seperate problem. Is the spotter in instroct-o-mat? (if you have toggle switches at the desk, make sure its in the middle position)


        • #5
          Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

          "G" and Jon beat me to it, check the off spot switch. They can cause all kinds of CRAZY problems, this sounds like one I've seen due to a shorted OS switch
          All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/


          • #6
            Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

            i will check out the offspot switch, as far as re-wiring goes i did re-wire a few chasis, this one included. it checks out ok on three other machines, one of the first things i did check was to see if it was instruct-o-mat unfourtunantly it wasnt that simple. both C2 &amp; C2A look really good on both sides, i will double check though. i am going to compare wiring to machine next to it under chasis next, thanks for your input. i will let you know what i find.
            just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.


            • #7
              Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

              ok so this is driving me crazy, wire to wire everything looks good, i am officially pulling my hair out over this, time to go look again [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]
              just feeling my way out like a blind man at an orgy.


              • #8
                Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                This is a strange problem J-Man. Do you have an AMF wiring diagram?

                Figure out where those wires go (or as supposed to go) and see if they in the right plave. USe a C2A Tester if you have one, or a multimeter if you don't.

                Look in the A&amp;MC box to make sure no wires are off or shorting (I think 3 and 4 on both sides is the 10th frame switch).

                Also look in the rear control box. Just check nobody has done something stupid like swapped a wire from the PBC (cycle) to the PBZ (zero) switch.

                Pushing the zero button should do nothing (except swap cycles) when the machine is at zero.....

                Pushing the cycle button should run the sweep to 66 (with the table then kicking in). Somehow these two functions seem to have been (almost) swapped around ....

                Ray Jordan
                Cybernetic Solutions/tenpintec


                • #9
                  Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                  Just wondering could it be the GP Switch has a broken wire, or bad connection?

                  With the circuit open the table won't run to do a respot when the machines cycles. But you can still reverse the sweep, when it's at guard. (if one of your mechs went to the lane and the sweep was down but no obvious other fault, and simply reversed it. This would cause the machine not to cycle)

                  If you do this there is no way the machine will cycle untill you have completed the GP switch circuit, and the table has run. This way the machine thinks it's completed it's cycle, and will allow a cycle after the nect ball has been delivered.

                  Quick way to check is open up the wire way where the capacitiors are located. you will see a terminal block with lots of wires between the capacitors. Some of the terminals are labelled SW these are the GP switch. Two smaller yellow wires go to the GP switch, tho bigger ones go to the chassis. Just join the two big yellow one that head back towards the chassis. This was you are bypassing GP switch.

                  Incidentally one of the wires to the respot cells maybe yellow, so make sure you do the two marked SW.

                  This is just a long shot, hope it helps

                  When you turn the power off and back on, does you pit run straight away ? or once you've pressed first ball stepper ?


                  • #10
                    Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                    Originally posted by J-man:
                    one of the first things i did check was to see if it was instruct-o-mat unfourtunantly it wasnt that simple.
                    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually this is quite easy to test with no test equipment. Take the bottom off the chassis. Then disconnect the thin gray wire going to the T2 and tape it off. Reinstall chassis. If you now have a cycle then you have a short to ground in your wiring on the machine to the front desk. Try this and report back. If it works we can help you determine where the short is.

                    If this doesn’t work, then I suspect a defective SA switch (or wiring) as the cycle function must go thru the NO contacts of this switch.

                    hmmm also has a good point. If my advice doesnt work...Jump your GP wires in the wire way.



                    • #11
                      Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                      I think we need more details of the symptoms.

                      Some points though:

                      If instructomat were the problem, then running the sweep by SWS to 66 will then allow the machine to complete its cycle (i.e the table would start). However, if the machine is in instructomat block state (i.e. cycle input has been triggered, but instructomat is suppressing sweep run) then pressing PBZ will do nothing but step cycles. So I don't think instructomat is your problem.

                      If GPS was dodgy, then second ball would still work. It also has nothing to do with cycle sweep run, so it could not prevent the sweep from running from 0 to 66.

                      If OS switch was shorted or stuck on, you would not be able to run sweep via SA (and it would not complete the run 270 to 0 by itself). It also would not prevent the cycle sweep run (0 to 66).

                      On my machines I can get PBZ to make it 'look' like it's cycling (get sweep to run 0 to 66 and stop), but only if I press the PBC immediately before I press PBZ, and only because PBC is hooked through the AccuScore+ chassis (which holds the cycle input for a few seconds). However, to get it in this 'state', I have to turn off the table switch and initially cycle it, which contradicts your observations.

                      I am still suspicious of the OS circuit, I just can't think of a way to reproduce your results.

                      If you disconnect C2A-24, you can eliminate the OS input entirely - that would be good.

                      I would also have a close look at the wiring to the sweep run switch (there is an OS input on that switch).

                      Some more details would be good too:
                      1. Does pressing PBZ actually step cycles?
                      2. Does holding out SB for a second or two cause the sweep and/or table to start?
                      3. Does the machine *ever* cycle from the cycle switch (or cushion)?



                      • #12
                        Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                        Good job Andrew. Your looking at nor-1 arent you? I think I had this problem many many years ago except it was in the #5 board. One of the transistors down in the left hand corner was bad.
                        You could also try to flipflop the ball cycle by holding out TA-2 and the OS switch to see if it starts a machine cycle. It shouldn't.


                        • #13
                          Re: cycle switch wired wrong?


                          I think you misread my post.

                          If the machine is on first ball and there is a broken wire in the gp circuit, when a ball is bowled the sweep will travel from 0 to 66 degrees as normal, but the table will not run.

                          If at this point a mechanic reverses the sweep to zero. The machine will not cycle when ball are bowled.

                          Now if the machine is powered down with the sweep zero, what happend when power is applied ? Pressing first ball stepper or program spring the machine into life, and possibly the machine starts a cycle, and were back to square one.

                          Which is why I threw in the GP switch as a possibility.

                          I'm running MP chassis, not solid state would this make a difference ?


                          • #14
                            Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                            yes hmmmmm there is no program zero on ss. the chassis remembers where in the cycle it is. I pluged in the spare the other day. table started to run. had not been used in a few months...thats just where in the cycle it was when it was unpluged.


                            • #15
                              Re: cycle switch wired wrong?

                              Right, maybe I need to expand my horizons ....


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