odd problem

ok i have a very odd problem...when a person throws a first ball the sweep comes down to guard..but when the tabel runs to feel for pins the sweep does no further advancements..i have changed out the chassis and the same probelm occured on the same lane...i have a packed house tonight for league..im in dire need of help

[Andrew]

Re: odd problem

Check TA2 cam switch and wires.

Cheers,
Andrew.

[67871]

Re: odd problem

how is the easiest way to test these switches...cause im not all up for replacing all three of them

[TheGMan143]

Re: odd problem

One way is to drop the switch pack, pull the wires on one switch at a time, and use an ANALOG meter to check continuity. Watch the needle as you activate the switch... when the switch 'clicks', you should get a smooth rise to zero ohms and the needle should hold there. If you get any wobble or bounce to the needle, the contacts are noisy, and it will cause you chassis problems. Then switch the leads to the NC side... the meter will go to zero ohms. Activate the switch, and it should drop smoothly to INF. Release it, and the needle should rise smoothly to zero ohms. Again, any bounce or hesitation could be a noisy (or at least suspect) switch.

You cannot use a digital meter for this... the sampling rate of a digital is too low to display noise in the switch.

You can also use a small battery powered amplifier (Radio shack carries a decent one) and a set of alligator clip leads hooked to it to "hear" noise in the switch... you hook it up in the same manner as the meter, and as you activate the switch, you should hear a nice, dry 'click' followed by silence (or possibly a low, constant hum from the amplifier circuitry)... if it sounds "scratchy", the contacts are noisy and the switch should be replaced.

I would recommend replacing all the switches at once... they're cheap enough, and usually they're about the same age... if one is starting to fail, the others are probably not far behind it. If you're going to expend the effort to pull the pack and replace 1 switch, it's only slightly more effort to do the other 2... and then you can be relatively sure that you've ruled out the switches and they shouldn't give you trouble again for quite a while. Just mark the front wireway with a piece of tape, or use a "sharpie" silver marker to date when the switches were replaced... it'll give you a better idea where to start looking if you have electrical problems again on that machine. Building a spare switch pack will save you time as well... instead of disassembling the pack on the machine, you just connect the leads to the new pack & pin it in, leaving the old one to be rebuilt with new switches on the bench and returned to your 'spare parts' inventory.

The problem with the cam switches is that there are 2 faults with them... one, they are not sealed. If moisture, grease, or oil gets on them, it migrates down through the switch plunger or through the splits in the case, and sooner or later it gets into the contacts. The second problem is that the switches only carry 'signal' voltage... it doesn't have the electrical 'punch' to arc, burning off contaminants and oxidation/corrosion... so they develop a patch of crud on the switch pads that finally builds up to intermittently insulate the terminals, causing noise, resistance, and problems. You could waste the time to hook up a 12V battery and a bulb to the switch, and operate the contacts a couple times, which will burn off the gunk on the contact pads, but for what they cost to just replace them, it's really not worth it.

[triac]

Re: odd problem

First thing I would do is check the adjustment to the TA-2. Make sure it is not turned in to far…meaning when the high part of the cam pushes on the lever the switch wont click.

The easiest way to test the TA2 is to hook one end of your continuity tester to ground. Hook the other end to C2A-211AA. When you pull the lever you should have continuity. This checks the NC of the TA-2, the NO is not connected on my chassis as it is not needed for my Omega-Tek PCB. If it is on yours…the other wire on your meter would go to C2A-25x to ground

If this all sounds Greek, you’re going to need to drop the cluster as G-man said, or good luck getting your meter in there without dropping the cluster.

BTW, a digital meter is just fine for checking continuity. You either got continuity, resistance or nothing. If you have a sound function on your meter, such as checking diodes, its even easier as you don’t have to look up.


Triac

[67871]

Re: odd problem

ok i found the problem..it wasnt in the ta2 switches it was my oor swtich...the wire for nc was touching the common side of the switch...................i so feel like an ass now

[Kingram]

Re: odd problem

Great post Gman.

Joe: When this occurs does the table pick the pins up and fail to respot them and the sweep is still at guard? Haven't worked on 70's for several years but this is the senario for 90's.

[67871]

Re: odd problem

picks them up..and the sweep will not run it will stay at guard and the table will not respot pins..i got to looking around..had a bare wire off the oor switch which atuo oor'ed the machine after the table went to feel for pins

[Kingram]

Re: odd problem

Now all Bowltech members will know to check the oor switch when this senario occurs. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
If you explain exactly how the problem occurs and the state of the machine afterwards the guys will be able to help you more better. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Megatech]

Re: odd problem

This is what I would do in a case like this:

1. Read the error code on the display of my singleboard. <a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

3. Look up the error number "1b3" in the list. <a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/GB/manuals/82-70FoutcodesGB.pdf</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

4. Fix the wires on the offspot switch.

All in 5 minutes time! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Megatech]

Re: odd problem

Oh, I forgot:

To test the microswitches:

1. Press the button on the PC-Board <a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.maximumtechnology.nl/Fotos/82-70Controller2.jpg</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a> to put it in testmode.

2. Keep yours ears open to hear the beeper sound on every switch that you operate. No beeper, no switch action! Because this beeper responds very fast you can actually 'hear' a bad switch. Replace it when it sounds like a dying parakeet. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. The best way to test switches is to move the switchlevers very slowly.

[Kingram]

Re: odd problem

That's great Megatech but most of us here in the USA and fortunate if we have a parts book and sequence of operation for our machines, much less a trouble shooting flow chart. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Stay handy as you will be able to help a lot of techs on this forum. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Megatech]

Re: odd problem

Don't worry, I will!!

It's just that once you got used to the power of this technology, you hate to see your friends out there spending a lot of time looking for machine problems of wich the cause can easily be read from a display the same moment it occurs! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

[AMF-Holland]

Re: odd problem