Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

[Charley Farley]

First off, I just wanted to let everyone know that I changed my name on here to my real one. You may remember me as "Farley AMF 70/90 XL". Now on to my problem.

My setup is 82-70's SS Chassis Omega Tek conversion no pind. and we have expander boards with Qubica scoring. The combo motors are Nationals - and the sweep motor has a solid state external switch (the white and orange one). Up until now this lane has no problems out of the oridinary, this is my 5th season at this center.

My lane 11 has been acting up for the last week or so. Of course this never happened when I was there, but the description I got from the counter guys was this... When someone would throw a ball on 1st ball, the sweep would go to 1st guard and just sit there. They said the way they got it to run again was to take out the fuse on the outside of the chassis and put it back in and it would run. They said the fingers appeared to be open and that's why they went to the fuse. Sounds like a GPS problem to me, but never happened when I was working.

What DID happen to me Thursday night was this... The machine was interlocked so I hand cranked the table up and the sweep didn't run, just buzzed. Out of curiosity I gave the chassis a bump and the sweep did run, but didn't start again on the next cycle, and still won't. When I bumped the chassis, I saw some arching in the contactor (AB style) the contacts did look worn so I took a known working chassis from the next lane (10) that has the push button Seimens contactor and tried it. Same result. I put the chassis from 11 on 10 and had problems with the sweep stalling, again I noticed arching in the contactor. I found that the screw was missing in the upper contacts, so I put one in. Now the chassis from 11 works fine on lane 10, but 11 still just buzzes. I even got the chassis from lane 12 (which works fine on 12) same result. I got my test cable out, plugged in the table power cable to it and plugged it into the sweep and ran it from the cam switches. The sweep motor runs fine when running off of the table power plug. (I tried this many times just to be sure.) I did the opposite and tried to run the table motor off of the sweep power plug and it won't budge, just buzzes. Next I replaced all of the C1 sockets on the machine, still same result. Next I changed the capacitors, same result. I even swapped the sweep caps. with the table caps. just to further exclude them from this problem. Still no luck. I then replaced the sweep power cable with an all new one. Same result, sweep power plug won't run the sweep or the table motor, but the table power plug will run both motors just fine. To my knowledge......... none of the other employees did anything to "fix" this lane without telling me, but I haven't ruled it out. I think the next thing I'm going to try is put in new wires that go back to the switches in the rear control panel. I hope I've been detailed enough, any ideas? Something I've overlooked? I'm just getting frustrated and wonder if I've forgotten about something obvious. I also wonder if the problems in the 11 chassis were related or caused something else to fail, or if it is just coinsidence.


Charley

[8270_Wang]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Try changing the sweep reverse switch in the control panel. The switch needs to be good for the sweep to run because the voltage and current pass through the contacts of the switch. Ive had a bad sweep reverse switch cause the problem you describe. The other mech had done everything that you had and it still woudlnt run. Good luck and keep us posted.

wang

[Loneliness]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

So to clarify you can’t get the Motor to run of the Sweep Power Cable... IE Sweep Cable table Motor Buzz, Sweep Cable to Sweep Motor Buzz...

Did you check Your Voltages for the Sweep power line and Also Your Brake Resistors for the Caps...? If not, Also Need to trace your Sweep Power Lines through the Wire way and check to make sure you get a Clean Cont. Signal and Check your jumper boards in the Wire way… That would be my next step in your Chapter you wrote

[Coors]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

sweep reverse

[Alan Meyers]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Also could be sweep run switch.

[Charley Farley]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

I'm thinking sweep reverse and/or sweep run switch. I looked, didn't have any new ones and we were starting to get busy so I didn't swap from a working lane. I also double checked for anything in the wireway and blew it out with the air compressor.

Loneliness... Sweep cable plugged into test cable so it will reach table motor = table motor won't run, just buzz same as sweep motor. When I do the opposite, table cable plugged into test cable so it reaches the sweep motor = sweep motor runs fine. Also what should the voltages be for the sweep power line, and what should the readings be for the brake resistors you mentioned. I need to check to see if I have any of those, i was thinking of replacing that next. Could I swap the wires on it with the one for the table to see if the problem follows?

Could any of the cam switches be responsible for this?

I'll keep everyone posted on what happens, thanks for the replies!

Charley

[BowlEquip]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

CF: It can't be the sweep run switch...this only turns the contactor on. The sweep reverse switch would be my bet.

DJS

[BowlEquip]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

CF: Cam switches can't be the problem...all low voltage. You have a high voltage problem here.
Regarding the sweep reverse switch: sometimes the 1/4" tabs on the older switches loosen where they're riveted to the switch body. It will be visible, possibly with some blackening around it.

djs

[Charley Farley]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

That's why the amp rating is different on the 2 switches, correct?

[Andrew]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Charley, you've supplied such a thorough description of the problem and your logical investigation and analysis has eliminated almost everything (and you know what Spock says about that..).

I wouldn't worry about the ballast resistors - they don't make the motor start; they are part of the brake circuit.

I don't think you indicated whether the sweep contactor works okay - or is it just the motor itself that doesn't run (but buzzes).

Given that the chassis worked on another machine, then it's likely the sweep low voltage (contactor) circuit is working fine.

So that leaves - as Wang suggested - the SWRS (sweep reverse switch). You can probably quickly prove this simply by holding the SWRS and running the sweep with SWS. The SWRS switch usually fails on one contact only. If the sweep runs when you have SWRS on, but not off, then the switch is the likely candidate. Just have a quick look at the wire terminals before you remove in case they've fallen off (and thus causing the actual problem, not the switch).

As to your question about the contactor on the other chassis being damaged by this problem. When the sweep is buzzing, it is pulling more current than usual, so that may have caused some damage to the points in the contactor. I doubt it would have unwound a screw though - I find that a bit weird. That's why I was asking about whether the contactor was operating fine. It could just be a coincidence.

Andrew.

[Andrew]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Originally posted by Andrew:
I don't think you indicated whether the sweep contactor works okay...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, what I meant by that is whether the contactor is turning on fully, without arcing (unlike the first chassis you tried), and without buzzing loudly.

[old-school-mechanic]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

I'm going with the SWRS. But dont rule out something falling into the wire way. If the SWRS checks out. I'd be blowing out the wire ways.

[JimDorsin]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Check your 4 expander wires. That is wahe we usualy find to be the problem in ours. (red white green and yellow I beleive) They go to the expander molex plug. Those pins kan be pretty finiky.

[Andrew]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Ah, good point Paul, didn't think of that.

I guess also if you have offspot reverser relays, you'd want to check that too.

[Charley Farley]

Re: Sweep motor won't run, just buzzes - need ideas

Ok, got it. Brain fart. I forgot to put in my original post that I found that the orange wire for the expander that goes from the C1 to TSA2 had come off. I didn't mention it because I got the install sheet and hooked it back up before I made my post. At the time, I thought sure that was my problem but hooking it back up didn't help. Problem was I either read the sheet wrong or looked at the terminal board wrong because when I double checked the routing of the wires it turns out I hooked that wire up to TSE1 instead of TSA2 (if memory serves me). I was aggrivated at myself for that one, put it back where it belongs and it works fine. Thanks everyone for the ideas and speedy replies.

Charley