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  • Table Spazing

    Have a table that after spotting pins will intermitanly jerk up and down like it's having a seizeur.Have 5 board chassis, could this be a TA switch malfuntion or wire shorting?

  • #2
    Re: Table Spazing

    Does the table motor contactor engage and disengage (AKA Chatter) with this problem? Indicating a possible TA1 problem...

    Or maybe a mechanical problem....
    Does this jerking occur as the table begins to accend from the pindeck (spotting pins) back to the zero up position?

    What brand of motor/gearbox is this? National, Ge, Westinghouse, Franklin...

    If so check for a loose and worn table drive key way and shaft.

    Check for worn splines in the table gearbox housing and the table shaft. Look for sharp splines.

    Inside the gearbox there may be damaged or missing teeth and a worn worm wheel.
    Dr. James Bandy,D.D. HCLS
    <a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank">http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

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    • #3
      Re: Table Spazing

      Does it only shudder on spotting run, or respot run also?

      If the contactors are chattering, swap chassis to confirm chassis fault.

      Andrew.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Table Spazing

        Sounds like the old table drift to me from the description. Check the braking mech in the motor (we have nationals so it's the brushes for us, dunno what other kinds of motors use) also the table cams might be out of adjustment which could cause the table to drift. My main clue is he said after spotting, that's usually when I see them drift, longer travel as it's going all the way to the deck, so it takes more to stop it when it comes up.
        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Table Spazing

          I bet cash that it is bad lower contacts. Next thing to look for would be mechanical coast. then check to make sure your C-1 pins are in good shape (sencond row). Swap the chassis with another lane, if it follows the chassis, then its 90% likely to be those contacts.

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          • #6
            Re: Table Spazing

            Chassis swap needs to be the first thing done. If problem moves, could have a loose (or missing) screw to the center upper/lower contacts.

            If problem stays, could be loose bolt (the large one) for the table drive mount but this usually shows up as a jerky table on respot. The center bolt might be too tight for the table drive.

            Rep touched on something about the longer stroke of the table in spotting mode. It is very possible you might have very dry rod ends or they are binding. Make sure all 4 of the table rods rotate freely. Occasionally we will get a squeak in spotting mode, but not in respot mode that usually indicates dry rod ends.

            Triac

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            • #7
              Re: Table Spazing

              I think Paul nailed this one.That definately is drifting ive seen that a few times and its usually contactors or C1 pins but once it was just a streched spring on the TA1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Table Spazing

                ditto:
                bad set of lower contacts
                seen that way too many times


                curt

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                • #9
                  Re: Table Spazing

                  More than likely Rep has it. Replace 020 brushes if you have National Motors. also make sure Table is stopping as close to 355 as possible.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Table Spazing

                    Mechman - is the jerking happening during the table run, or after the table gets back to the top?

                    I actually thought you meant the table jerked while it was spotting (I misread). If that is actually the case, then mechanical issues (such as binding in the spot/respot linkages, etc) or chattering contactors might be the problem.

                    However, sounds like we're talking about a bouncy table here. If TA1 is adjusted too far back i.e. less than 355 degress, or the table motor/gearbox is quite slack, then the table can slip back from it's zero position after having stopped. This reengages TA1, which runs the table slightly forward again, then it slips back again, then it runs forward, then... etc. Result: table basically sits there and bounces. Typically it settles after a few bounces (depending on how bad it is).

                    Is that what you are seeing?

                    National motors with bad brake brushes make this worse, but any motor will do it if the gearbox is slack enough, or the stopping position is too far back (no gearbox, no matter how tight, can hold (still) the table's weight - that's why the gearbox can only hold the table near zero).

                    Bad electrical braking is unlikely to cause this, since bad electrical braking will cause motor run to run past the set stopping point, not stop early (unless you have previously adjusted TA1 to counter the effect of an intermittent electrical braking problem). Bad electrical braking would likely cause the table to overrun and end up back down at the deck (where it will probably reengage TA1 and come back up and repeat).

                    Either way, you should swap the chassis to eliminate it.

                    Andrew.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Table Spazing

                      Originally posted by Andrew:
                      sounds like we're talking about a bouncy table here. If TA1 is adjusted too far back i.e. less than 355 degress, or the table motor/gearbox is quite slack, then the table can slip back from it's zero position after having stopped. This reengages TA1, which runs the table slightly forward again, then it slips back again, then it runs forward, then... etc. Result: table basically sits there and bounces. Typically it settles after a few bounces (depending on how bad it is).

                      Is that what you are seeing?

                      National motors with bad brake brushes make this worse, but any motor will do it if the gearbox is slack enough, or the stopping position is too far back (no gearbox, no matter how tight, can hold (still) the table's weight - that's why the gearbox can only hold the table near zero).
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Right On Andrew, i was too Lazy to type that out [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Table Spazing

                        Thank you all for your help!I'll let you know what I find.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Table Spazing

                          Andrew I have been in this center and I believe that all of there motors are westing house. Mechman does it make a chattering noise or is it mechanical?
                          They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Table Spazing

                            Originally posted by Homer:
                            Right On Andrew, i was too Lazy to type that out [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He he, no probs. Just glad you got the drift. Get it? "the Drift". HA Ha HA Ha HA HA I kill me. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotflol.gif[/img]
                            Originally posted by lafarge:
                            Andrew I have been in this center and I believe that all of there motors are westing house. Mechman does it make a chattering noise or is it mechanical?
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for that. I am not familiar with westinghouse - do they have braking brushes (or some other sort of mechanical brake, as opposed to an electrical brake)?

                            We only have GEs on our tables (and mostly Nationals on our sweeps). GEs are more likely to get slack than Nationals (I'm not sure if that's because of the Nationals' mechanical brakes, or just because the National gearboxes are designed better and wear less). And so we see a fair few bouncy tables from time to time.

                            Andrew.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Table Spazing

                              West are almost identical to GE. If they are GE, then there is a chance it is bad switches as well. I would still start with a chassis swap.

                              Comment

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