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Unlucky "13"

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  • Unlucky "13"

    Hey folks,

    I have a problem with our lane 13. The sweep motor is overheating constantly. For about 3 days it was overheating just by being turned on. It ran longer today than in the last 3 days. It will run fine for a short time than the kilxon pops. By the time I get to it the motor is extremely hot to the touch. *After another look, everytime the sweep motor runs it begins to heat up. After 10 cycles the motor was already hot.*

    I have checked all the pins in the C-1 plug, Changed chassis, Changed gear boxes, Changed motors (3 times), removed shims from motor, changed capacitors 2 times, changed motor plug, cheacked for bad ground, checked the terminal strip. Both gearboxes are full with oil.

    Just for joy I have changed the capscitors again, and put a different chassis on the lane.

    I have Westing house motors, and SS chassis with expander set.


    Any help?

    Thanks
    Critical

  • #2
    Re: Unlucky "13"

    It sounds like you have covered the most obvious causes. You say you changed the motor plug…maybe try swapping the whole plug and cable assy with another machine to see what happens.

    What type of start switch are you using (i.e.…SSSS, centrifugal)? If it a potential relay that is mounted in the wireway….that could be causing your problem.

    Couple of other things I can think of is:

    Check the condition of the white jumper wire from TS-17 to TS-1A1
    Change the Sweep reverse switch

    Triac

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Unlucky "13"

      Crit,

      Are there any mechnical restrictions in the sweep assembly?

      Did you check, test and replace the sweep reverse switch? Check for a loose wire connection at that switch.

      You said you changed the motor plug (not sure if both) and checked the terminal strip. Did you change both the motor plug and also wire cable on the pinspotter side? Is there any corrosion on the connectors? Any loose connectors? Did you replace both machine side and motor side plugs?

      You said you looked at the terminal strips, I have seen objects fall in where the cables to the chassis come out. A pin or socket from the chassis could be laying across a connection to the other. Look again. I've found old pins and sockets, staples, paperclips, nails, screws and even a foil gum wrappers in there causing motor and chassis problems from laying across terminal connectors.

      Have you check the main power for proper neutral connection? If there is a loose wire from the main power panel to pinspotter this will happen. Under the electrical chassis there is a set of white wires (Neutrals) on a terminal strip and a small jumper going to another terminal strip of white wires which are also neutral, if this wire is burned and yields high resistance to open circut, you will have a sweep run hot and eventually overload.

      Do you have an amp-probe? Setup a motor cable with a stripped 6 inch section of wire. Place the probe on the hot wire and take a reading. You should have high reading at motor start and between 4.5 to 6.5 amps on the motor run reading. Being able to watch the amps while you trouble shoot will help. You will need to get them down to this range.

      Post back your progress, keep us updated.
      Dr. James Bandy,D.D. HCLS
      <a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank">http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Unlucky "13"

        Soundls like the motor switch is sticking on the boards in the stator. Remove stator and check motor switch boards. Replace if necessary, or better yet, intall potential relays to bypass and remove those troublesome boards.
        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

        --Kat

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Unlucky "13"

          Ok here is what I have done.

          I checked the white jumper wire in the channel. (OK)
          Checked the sweep motor plug. (OK)
          Cleaned/dusted the channel with the terminal strip (OK)
          I did replace the Sweep Reverse switch (new)
          There were no restrictions/bindings in the sweep performance

          What it seemed to be was the black start switch in the channel.........

          I replaced the wrong one orginally. (oops) I was thinking backwards and replaced the table, forgetting the sweep is on the7 pin side of the machine....

          In the process of checking the plug wires I did notice that it will have to be replaced soon since it is old and the insulation is breaking off.

          If it ain't one thing it's another!!!

          Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate it.
          Crit

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Unlucky "13"

            Did you check the voltage at the CR relay and the motor plug? Low voltage will over-heat a motor in a short time. Compare the readings with the next machine.
            &quot;Gun control is the policy of tyrants&quot;
            Rep. Rob Bishop (R-UT)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Unlucky "13"

              Crit,

              You need to go through all you pinspotters and check the motor wiring, since you found one lane that needs the motor wire replace you may need to replace several more. Good new wire will prevent your motors from overheating and reduce the chance of a fire.
              Dr. James Bandy,D.D. HCLS
              <a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank"><a href="http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm" target="_blank">http://bowlingpin.cjb.net/Techs/aboutme.htm</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Unlucky "13"

                make sure that your caps are wired correctly. had similar problem with a table motor. wires from strip to caps to plug to resistor were all wrong. one hot lead to each cap will cause this.
                Don't mind me, what you read is invisible.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Unlucky "13"

                  I haven't had any luck with the black relays in the channel at my center. They were installed before I started there and I wound up taking them out last year after a couple headaches that led me to them. Mainly cycle problems, not overheating. I talked to Bowlequip and he said that if the center doesn't have enough overall current available that they may not function well. When any of the motors are activated on most of my lanes the pit lights blink, he said that's a good sign that we don't have enough juice. Just my 2 cents, hope you got it fixed.

                  Charley

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Unlucky "13"

                    Sounds to me like it is runnung on the start windings.... Swap the motor head with another lane and see if it follows. If so, bad switches. If not, you may want to check into your Cent Mech on the problem lane gearbox.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Unlucky "13"

                      Crit I know this is a long shot but maybe just maybe the Stator your using is not wired up correctly for a start switch. We had this happen here and just as you said it would run but get hot in a matter of a game or so . I pulled said stator off and checked the wireing and found that the wires were not on the right turminals for a Electrnic start switch. This had me baffled for a while so O made up two diffrent Stators one for Electronic switch and one for a mechanical switch Problem solved for later.
                      They say that the **** rolls down hill but the smell always starts at the top.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Unlucky "13"

                        Just a thought is the motor wound for 50Hz or 60Hz as this will cause excessive overheating.Also a low voltage problem can cause an overheating problem.(But this was on a 240v centre, when voltage was very low.).
                        Maister

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Unlucky "13"

                          Did Crit already say he found the problem - the "black start switch in the channel"? Is that the motor start switch (ours are on the motors)?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Unlucky "13"

                            Originally posted by Andrew:
                            Did Crit already say he found the problem - the "black start switch in the channel"? Is that the motor start switch (ours are on the motors)?
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">May be potential relay.... I was a bit confused about the switching myself.

                            Comment

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