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82-70 grounding

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  • 82-70 grounding

    I haven't gone thru the schematics yet, but I've noticed that some of the machines have the grounding from the PM plug at the chassis barely there or not there at all), and some of the machines have no grounding wire attached to the table (on the 7 pin side next to the respot arm). What would be the results of a bad ground on the pm plug or a bad ground at the table?
    Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

  • #2
    Re: 82-70 grounding

    Sounds like a solid state chassis question.

    1. For us, if the PM plug is not grounded to the machine, we lose the 1st ball light.

    2. As far as the table ground wire, I believe you can get rid of it without any ill effects. 98% of our tables are this way and still use a table wire to the cells to detect standing pins, they do not have any problems. The last coule of table ground wirs I removed did not make any difference in machine opration. Our machines with MP chassis use the scoring to tell it whether pins are standing or not and do not have any wiring on the table.

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    • #3
      Re: 82-70 grounding

      You need to ground one of the cell wires on the tag strip at the capacitors.Just move any one from the numbered positions to the gnd. this will ensure if the scoring fails, the table will not try to spot on top of standing pins. If there is no ground the table will feel for pins on first ball but then try to spot on top of them, not a pretty sound or sight.
      maister

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      • #4
        Re: 82-70 grounding

        Train wrecks are no fun.

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        • #5
          Re: 82-70 grounding

          Originally posted by TABLEJAM:
          Sounds like a solid state chassis question.

          1. For us, if the PM plug is not grounded to the machine, we lose the 1st ball light.

          2. As far as the table ground wire, I believe you can get rid of it without any ill effects. 98% of our tables are this way and still use a table wire to the cells to detect standing pins, they do not have any problems. The last coule of table ground wirs I removed did not make any difference in machine opration. Our machines with MP chassis use the scoring to tell it whether pins are standing or not and do not have any wiring on the table.
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same deal here, we have C-90 masks. If that wire from the elco plug isn't grounded to the wireway we lose our first ball light (it was wired to the chassis with the older masks with seperate 1st and 2nd ball lights (terminal 24 on the elco plug I believe) but now with the C-90's it's on all the time so that wire just goes to ground). As for the ground in the table, I've seen a few that are broken across the house and haven't noticed any ill-effects from it
          All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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          • #6
            Re: 82-70 grounding

            Originally posted by Pietenpol:
            some of the machines have the grounding from the PM plug at the chassis barely there or not there at all
            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you mean by "barely there or not at all"?

            Which masks do you have, and what PM plug do you use?

            Any mask hookup needs a proper ground or it surely won't work.

            The original PM ELCO plug to MOD IV/V masks had constant +ve to the globes via the plug, with other pins grounding particular globes.

            The C-90 masks with ELCO plugs need a grounding strap to keep the 1st ball light on, and use the constant +ve line and individual switched-ground lines to run the other lights (2, X, F).

            We converted the ELCO plugs to cannon plugs with a pin for ground (and I can't tell you how much nicer it is without those stupid grounding straps).

            As for the table, we have a ground wire running to the gripper protect switch. I'm would not be suprised if it works without this ground wire, as the tie rods and main arms, pillow blocks, yoke, table drive, etc, all have a good metal-to-metal connection. There isn't much current involved, so to me it doesn't seem like much of an issue; if it works, it works.

            Of course, if you have the appropriate upgrade, then you might not need table wires at all.

            Andrew.

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            • #7
              Re: 82-70 grounding

              When I mean barely there, I've notices it's a fork connector with maybe 1 prong barely under the screw, or a loose screw holding it, or the wire and terminal just hanging there not attached. The chassis are converted 1-boards. The PM plug is long green with wires to the mask and a single ground wire to the frame. The masks are older with a pindicator in them. We have all the lights operating even on the lanes that didn't have the ground connected (I've been putting connectors on and making sure things are tight last couple days)I was wondering if the bad grounding had anything to do with the fact that some of the lanes seemed to have the pindicator lights somewhat dimmer than others.


              Maister- I have had lanes that when the cell wire is off it will spot the rack on top of the pin. Can you be a little more specific on how I wire that up? Does that mean if my 10 wire is broken or off the cell connector and they leave a 10, it wont rack on top of it and I can eliminate some of my spotting calls???
              Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

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              • #8
                Re: 82-70 grounding

                Frame works (last I checked) does not interface with the ss chassis.

                Piet. I believe that Maister thought you no longer needed your respot cell wires. In your case, you dont want to ground out one as you will loose your strike cycle. Most scoring now can intigrate to the chassis and send it information about the score. They no longer need the respot wires, and you have to ground 1 out (when you remove your table cable) to stop an incident should the machine not receive a signal from the scoring. (I have framworks at the 30 hour a week part time gig....mk-70 but no expander....told they dont intigrate, so I have to use the wires too....Full time job, all cables are removed)

                As for the grounding wires, I would bet that they arent needed, as long as you have no mask issues as stated above. I have put in grounding wires in centers with bad power for extra protection, or for extreamly static sencitive scoring.

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