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  • 2 for 1

    Figured I'ld post both problems under 1 topic. Our first patient is an 82-70 table that is hesitant to respot pins. I respond to the call to find pins on the deck, sweep at guard and deadwood on deck. Fingers are open. Whenever I see this, I reach under the table contactor and engage it. Letting the table drop, pick up the pins and raise. Then I engage it again and the table lowers the pins to the deck. After that, I stand back and watch the table lower itself, raise the pins, the sweep runs and everything returns to normal. (I have a couple machines that this occurs on)

    Problem #2 is a front roller. There is such a gap that occassionaly (it's hapenned half a dozen times in the last year) we'll get a ball call where the ball is rolling between the flat gutter and front roller. I asked the senior mechanic about it and he said everyone has looked at it and nobody has fixed it. He said change the bracket, I suggested possible weak spring or missing bumper in the bracket. He said go to town if I want to take a stab but nobody has fixed it yet. Just looking for possible things to check as I haven't pulled the front roller for a more complete diagnosis.
    Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

  • #2
    Re: 2 for 1

    1. GPS adjustment

    2. Screw a piece of old carpet to the tail plank that is long enough to ride on the carpet. The ball will not idle there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 2 for 1

      Ok, I searched gps and learned its the gripper protection switch but didn't see anything on the searches related to my specific problem. I'm still learning these machines and tentatively scheduled to sttend John's class in Columbus this year. Is this the switch in the back of the table? Between the 8 and 9 pins? The name explains it's purpose, I don't have my manuals here at home to do any research...believe me, tonight I'll be studying it and it's purpose in life. Can someone give me a brief gps 101? As for #2, I want to dig into it a little and see if I can figure out what is wrong (unless it's machine placement or deck too short on that side lol) if all else fails tho then I'll use that tip king. Will that also work on lanes notorious for having pins ride on the front roller as well?
      Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 2 for 1

        King’s advice on the GPS is spot on. The GPS won't allow the table to feel for pins on first ball, to protect the RSC’s from damage should they be closed.

        Is this problem intermittent? If so, check the adjustment or replace the switch. If it does it all the time you got a broken table wire (or bad connection)and a temporary fix (or permanent fix depending on scoring interface) is to jump the wires for the GPS in the wireway.

        As for idling balls/pin between front roller and tail plank…I just screw a 2”x4” along the tail plank. If balls idle behind the front roller in front of the bounce board…AMF makes a Kit or you can add a short piece of carpet on that 2”x4” on the ball door side.

        Triac

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        • #5
          Re: 2 for 1

          Are your GP switches still connected or are they bypassed in the front wireway?

          Even if they are bypassed in the wireway on the TAC board there could be an issue with the related wires and pins on the C2A plug (C2A-28m and C2A-412DD), if those pins are not making good contact you may have an intemittent problem, next time it happens wiggle the C2A plug to see if the table runs.

          Aside from resetting your backend to the proper distance from the back of the lane, adding a wood strip to the back of the tailplank as Triac suggests will stop some of those idling problems.
          Please.....follow the instructions!!

          John
          804-240-4982

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          • #6
            Re: 2 for 1

            I have used a piece of rail cover cut in half to take up space so a ball will not idle at the tailplank.

            Wang

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            • #7
              Re: 2 for 1

              As you can see, there's lots of ways to stop idling at the tailplank... I'll throw ours in, too:

              We use a piece of the heavy rubber from a cushion, about 3-4" wide, cut so the lag bolts and washers that hold it to the plank are recessed in the rubber rivet holes.

              As for the GPS, if it is working and in good condition (not cracked or broken), it is probably just out of adjustment. It's easy to adjust... it sets just like the table/sweep cam switches (threaded setscrew actuator locked with a jam nut). You close the cells about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then set the lever so it activates the switch at that point, and does not activate it with the fingers open. To test it, set the machine on 1st ball with the 1 pin on the deck, cells opened fully, and cycle it... it should feel for pins and run through. Step it back to first ball, close the fingers about 1/2 way, and cycle it again. The sweep should drop and wait at guard with no table run. Pull the fingers open fully, and the table should start running a second or two later.

              That switch likes to crack in half once in a while... and in it's housing, it's very hard to see that it broke. If it still seems to be giving problems after everything else checks out, pull it apart... more than likely the switch will fall apart in your hands as soon as it's removed. If it's intact, replace it anyway... it also gets oil and corrosion buildup on the contacts over the years which can make it act flakey.
              <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 2 for 1

                The reason your GPS problem is intermittent might be that pins sometimes hit the table and shake the cells causing them to close slightly, and, if your GPS is adjusted too finely, it'll engage.

                You running the table up and down has pushed it open all the way, and so the table then runs itself normally.

                The GPS's purpose is to protect the cell fingers, which could possibly bend if lowered on to standing pins.

                I have wondered how many times they have actually 'saved' a cell. It is extremely rare that we come to a machine and it's stuck waiting for GPS; usually it's after we've been playing with the machine (and perhaps that's the main case it's designed to protect), or if the table's slack and overruns and we get the 'pins in grippers' call (but in that case, it isn't protecting anything).

                Just adjust it very coursely (i.e. don't worry about accuracy); make sure it clicks a good way from the cell being fully open - I set them with the cells about 1/2 way closed (because it only needs to protect fully-closed cells).

                As for the front roller: we used to glue a cushion rivet onto the metal kickback in the middle of the gap which worked quite well. We have also tried the peice-o'-carpet trick, which also works well. However, we have the ball idle kit on all the bounce plates now, so no need for other tricks anymore.

                Andrew.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 2 for 1

                  After my research tonight and reading these posts, it seems like that is the problem. The first machine I looked at to see the switch in more detail ( I noticed it the other night and made a mental note to figure out what it was) was missing it's locknut. Another question that pops to mind is could this cause a machine to not set a new rack? A few times I've had a machine start to drop a set of pins and get them almost 45 degrees...instead of lowering completly to the deck it goes back up with pins in the cup. Is it maybe getting down and realizing that the cells are closed (gps out of adjustment) and returning to the top?
                  Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 2 for 1

                    Unless you have some of the original aluminium fingers from the 1960s on your respot cells the gripper protection serves no purpose. Jump the wires in the wireway and be done with it.

                    Paul

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                    • #11
                      Re: 2 for 1

                      Pietenpol

                      No the GPS will not affect the cups trying to spot pins on second ball. The GPS is only used on first ball when the table goes to feel for pins. More than likey the table drive did not unlatch after respot. When the table drive unlatches it permits the table to lower to spot height. When its latched, the table goes down to respot height which is what you are seeing. Since there are pins in the cups, you know the solenoid is working because the shuttle opened. More than likely you're cause is a broken roll pin in the table drive assembly.

                      Wang

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 2 for 1

                        In regards to the newer fingers...
                        If they were completey closed and the table went down (assuming the switch has been bypassed) would the table just treat it as an OOR?
                        Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 2 for 1

                          That extra problem I threw in regarding a new rack is an intermittent thing. I had 1 machine that did it almost regular one night and I could only get it to spot by stepping it to 2nd ball and then hitting the cycle.
                          Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 2 for 1

                            Originally posted by Pietenpol:
                            In regards to the newer fingers...
                            If they were completey closed and the table went down (assuming the switch has been bypassed) would the table just treat it as an OOR?
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. Offspot switch can only engage if the table drive clevis seperates from the table torque tube weldment - the cells would not be able to hold this weight and would slip off/around the pins, or bend upwards.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 2 for 1

                              Service the table drive to stop the half spot issue if the table is reaching the corect spot height the do a spotting adjustment
                              if the spot rod is adjusted to short it not let the spot latch catch onto the spot lever causing your 45 degree cup thing
                              disconect the GPS and bridge the wires together
                              if the machine tries to feel for pins when the cells are shut you have a respot adjustment issue
                              most centres across the world have done away with the gps switch 8290xl don't have them either

                              Greg

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