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  • Auto sweep reverse

    Hi,
    I'm in the process of trying to upgrade our machines to have the automatic sweep reverse when offspot occurs. i got the info from <a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000838#000000</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
    and it works (sort of) however the sweep does not stop at 'SA' and unless the offspot switch is modified the sweep overruns.
    Can anyone help?
    Thanks,
    Drew

  • #2
    Re: Auto sweep reverse

    Drew,
    The sweep reverse for a gutter (and a 1 pin count) controlling your pinspotters will depend, primarily, on the scoring. AMF, Qubica and Steltronic will provide the data for a 70 with a MP chassis or a 5 board conversion (Omega Tec with the expander). Or an AMF BBB.
    Brunswick ASx or Frameworks will not provide this data stream.

    SO - depends.
    What kind of scoring is it? What kind of chassis do you have?

    Then we can give you some answers.
    .
    .
    .
    This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Auto sweep reverse

      Do you have light ball triggering mounted behind your sweeps?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Auto sweep reverse

        the modification is for offspot reverse not for the 7-10 pickoff. it is a ss chassis with an omega-tek in it and no expander. i think our scoring is amf xl.oh and the machines are 82-70's

        we don't have light ball triggering behind our sweeps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Auto sweep reverse

          You may have connected it to the wrong place on the sweep run switch.

          That would mean the circuit path for the offspot relay to run the sweep isn't going through the SA cam like it should (that's what normally makes it stop at SA).

          The other possibility is that the capacitor you've used is too large and is causing the relay to stay on too long. If the relay doesn't turn off immediately after SA activates, then the sweep-raise phase of the OmegaTek circuit will actuvate the sweep while the start winding is still reversed (via the offspot relay). That would result in the sweep running (backwards) back down to just past 270.

          I use a slightly different circuit than the OmegaTek diagram or Martin's diagram, and I use a 24VAC relay (M relay), which seem to turn off faster.

          I'll see you when you work at Northcote next and discuss it further (I mainly posted this in case others were interested).

          Cheers,
          Andrew.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Auto sweep reverse

            What did you use to achieve this?? I would suggest contacting Ed Fox and obtaining his spider relays. They come with easy wiring instructions. All the wires are numbered. (8 of them comming out of a black box, hence spider relay)

            We have an occasional over run, but they are not common. One thing you need to do is take the stud off the torque tube (the one that actualy pushes in the OS microswitch) and put the nut on the stud side, making that stud just as long as you can (only go in about 3 threads, then tighten the nut)

            This spider relay basicly turns the OS switch into a sweep run switch, and activates sweep reverse at the same time.

            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Auto sweep reverse

              i am iclined to agree with Andrew and his first line.If this came as a kit ,check the drawing as it could be looking at it, reversed in relation to the sweep switch in the back end box.when sweep stops at first guard,table runs and then signal is sent back thro off spot switch to reverse sweep instead of running thro.
              maister

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Auto sweep reverse

                Sorry - didn't read the original post very well.
                .
                .
                .
                This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Auto sweep reverse

                  we some times have a slight over run on ours but it corrects itself and runs its self back to zero only diffrences i have on my version of the relay are I used a 330 micro f cap and an 24vac 11 pin relay. we also have MP chassis don't know if that makes a diffrence???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Auto sweep reverse

                    I forgot to mention - the only overunning we have had was slack sweep motors and a misadjusted SA, but in both cases, this is slight overrunning (i.e. it was trying to stop at SA, but went a bit too far).

                    I have not modified the OS switch bolt on ours. Not sure why we were able to get away with not doing this. Paul, could you give some more details?

                    I imagine the effect of winding the bolt out further is to make the OS engagement time as short as possible. I'm thinking therefore this wouldn't help prevent overrun (since sweep will stop at SA regardless of how long OS switch is engaged), but it would delay sweep activation with the benefit of slightly less table exposure to balls. Is that the aim?

                    Also, we use 47uF capacitors. If I try a 24V DC relay in it, it overruns (stays on too long, overlapping sweep-raise phase as described above). The 24VAC relays solved that problem.

                    Andrew.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Auto sweep reverse

                      Andrew......

                      I havent even thought the purpose through carefuly....lol, it was just an important step in the directions for the spider realy. (I assumed it had to do with correct run time so you dont get an overrun) but I never thought it through. I can say that the ones we didnt lengthen the bolt we had minor problems with. Once moved, no more problem.

                      Bear in mind that this was with the EBN spider relays, and I have never used other similar products.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Auto sweep reverse

                        Paul - Hmmm I'm not sure either - maybe the EBN circuit is a bit different (not reliant on SA perhaps), but I'm not familiar with them. Which contacts on the SWS do they hook to?

                        Another possibility is that our screws were wound out far enough to begin with. I might play around and see if I can reproduce the overrun problem here.

                        Cheers,
                        Andrew.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Auto sweep reverse

                          The EBN wires directly into the rear control box. It has ties to the sweep run and reverse, has 1 long wire that runs to the OS in the wireway.... I know what it is, but out of respect to Ed, I can not describe it.

                          Basicly, it turns the OS switch into a sweep run/reverse. (not sure how it time delays tho)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Auto sweep reverse

                            Andrew,
                            I have tried both your design and martin's. both of them overrun.
                            whether i use a capacitor or not. i have tried it with 47 and 20 and no capacitor at all and still overruns. not sure why, the wiring has been triple checked and its all correct according to your diagram. if i wind the bolt out really far it either sops too short or overruns, i think there is stll something wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Auto sweep reverse

                              are you using the spider relays?

                              Comment

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