Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

82-70's Dist.

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 82-70's Dist.

    as some of you Know I have been working on a small 4lane center in Avon Park Bombing Range. I'm almost finished but have 1 problem with one of the Dist. the problem is that the dist is hanging up around the 4 and 7 and around the 6 and 10. i adj the clutch 2 notches. cleaned the big plastic gear, oiled the clutch plate, etc. but still no luck. any ideas would be great. I just hate to have to figure it out more then an hour. it was driveing me nuts.
    Coolfoxx

  • #2
    Re: 82-70's Dist.

    Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
    oiled the clutch plate
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This type of clutch needs to be totally clean and dry. A thin film of 10 wt oil goes only inside the pinion gear, it's sleeve, and on the shaft inside of the sleeve. Grease goes on the stop blades.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 82-70's Dist.

      CoolFox

      This comes from GMans website. He wrote up instructions on clutch cleaning. Here ya go.

      DISTRIBUTOR CLUTCH CLEANING PROCEDURE
      --------------------------------------------

      Tools &amp; Parts Needed: Clean Rag(s)
      WD-40 (or similar light oil)
      15/16" Wrench
      Sandpaper - 150 / 200 Grit
      Lithium Grease (Bearing Grease)
      Flat File - Medium / Medium-Fine
      (poss) Hammer &amp; 1/8" Punch


      A. REMOVAL/DISASSEMBLY

      1. Ensure that the distributor is at the HEAD PIN bin.
      Turn off power and motor switches to prevent the
      machine from being turned on while working on it.
      During disassembly, note the order and orientation
      of the clutch components for later reassembly.

      2. If working on an even-numbered machine, skip to #3.
      On odd-numbered machines, the distributor drive shaft
      will need to be removed before the clutch. Remove the
      snap-pin or roll pin (the snap-pin can be pulled out,
      the roll pin will need to be driven out with a punch.
      Use extreme caution when driving the pin out so the
      distributor drive shaft is not bent.) Swing the
      distributor towards the #7 bin pocket until the drive
      shaft clears the distributor shaft. Set the drive
      shaft and pin aside for later reinstallation.

      3. Remove the clutch tension spring plate from the nut
      by rotating the plate slightly in the direction of the
      winding of the spring, then pull it away from the
      clutch until it clears the face of the nut. Use
      caution in removal, the spring is under rotational
      tension - remove the tension by rotating the spring
      plate until the tension is removed. The spring can
      now be removed by sliding the spring-end out of the
      face of the outer clutch plate.

      4. Loosen and remove the nut and washer from the
      distributor shaft. You may have to steady the shaft
      by holding the distributor's pin belt from rotating.

      5. Remove the outer clutch plate and friction ring by
      rotating it away from the nylon clutch worm at the
      center, then slide the clutch worm off the shaft.
      Use care not to lose the thin oil seal washer that is
      located between the clutch worm and inner clutch plate.

      6. Slide the inner clutch plate, pinion gear, and sleeve
      off the distributor shaft, then slide the thrust washer
      off the shaft.

      7. Wipe all oil/grease from the distributor shaft and the
      clutch stop-blades above it. Inspect the shaft and stop
      blade assembly for wear or damage. If the stop blades
      have developed any burrs on the faces, they will need to
      be filed smooth before reassembly. After filing, be sure
      to wipe off any metal filings from the stop blades and
      distributor shaft.

      8. LIGHTLY grease the clutch stop-blades where they contact
      the stop blade on the inner clutch plate.

      B. CLEANING &amp; LUBRICATION

      1. Leave the driveshaft/pin (if odd# machine), outer nut,
      washer, and tension spring near the machine. Take all
      other parts to the bench for cleaning.

      2. Wipe the outer clutch plate face and nylon friction
      ring with a clean, dry cloth to remove dust and oil.
      If they are excessively dirty, clean with alcohol. DO
      NOT USE ANY HARSH SOLVENT ON THE NYLON RING...you will
      damage it. The steel clutch plate can be lightly sanded
      and then the dust wiped off thoroughly if needed.
      Check the thin oil seal washer for scoring, wear, and
      ensure that it is flat (not bent or warped). Clean or
      replace as needed. Inspect the nylon clutch worm for
      wear or scoring (replace if needed), and wipe it clean
      with a dry cloth. If it is excessively dirty, clean
      in the same manner as the nylon friction ring (above).

      3. The inner clutch plate will usually separate from the
      pinion gear...if not, they will need to be cleaned in
      place. Check the inner clutch plate for wear, then wipe
      the inner face clean of oil and dust. The inner plate
      track can be sanded lightly if needed, but be sure to
      clean it thoroughly to remove all dust and grit.
      Clean all oil, grease, and dust from the outside of the
      plate, and inspect the stop blade. The stop blade must
      be smooth and free from burrs, and must be at a 90
      degree angle to the clutch plate (Carefully bend it to
      straighten and/or file all burrs smooth if needed.)
      Apply a LIGHT coating of grease to the stop-blade where
      it contacts the stop-blades on the distributor.

      4. Separate the pinion gear from the steel sleeve bearing.
      Inspect the bronze sleeve in the pinion gear for wear
      or damage where it meets the thrust washer. If there
      are grooves worn into the face of the sleeve, it will
      need to be sanded smooth. (If sanding is required,
      place a sheet of sandpaper on a FLAT surface, then lap
      the sleeve face over it to ensure that the surface of
      the sleeve face stays level with the pinion gear face.
      Sand until the face of the sleeve is smooth and free
      of grooves. If the bronze sleeve face becomes thinner
      than 1/32", it will need to be replaced. After sanding,
      make sure than the inner edge of the bronze pinion has a
      slight radius to it, and there's no sharp edge or burrs)
      After sanding, be sure to thoroughly clean all dust and
      grit from the pinion gear and bronze sleeve. Failure to
      do so may cause the clutch to fail or operate improperly.

      5. Inspect the steel pinion sleeve for wear. Sand the
      outer surface of the sleeve until smooth (if needed),
      then clean thoroughly to remove all oil, dust, and grit.
      Apply a THIN film of WD-40 to the surfaces of the
      sleeve, then reinstall it into the pinion gear and rotate
      the pinion around it... if any binding or 'grabbing' of
      of the pinion occurs when rotated, repeat steps 4 and 5.

      6. Inspect the steel thrust washer for damage or wear.
      If there are grooves or burrs worn into the contact face
      of the thrust washer where it meets the bronze pinion,
      sand in the same manner stated in Step 4 (The surface of
      the thrust washer must be flat and fit squarely with the
      surface of the bronze pinion. If the thrust washer is
      worn or sanded to a thickness less than 1/8", replace it).
      Spray a small quantity of WD-40 on the face of the thrust
      washer. After oiling, be sure to protect the washer from
      picking up dust or grit on the oiled surface, or damage to
      the pinion and thrust washer will result during operation.

      C. REASSEMBLY

      1. Apply a VERY LIGHT coating of WD-40 to the round sides
      of the distributor shaft, from where the flats in the
      shaft begin, to about 2-1/2" up the shaft.

      2. Slide the thrust washer down the shaft until it stops
      against the end of the flats, with the oiled side facing
      away from the distributor.

      3. Assemble the pinion/sleeve and inner clutch plate. The
      pinion will only enter the clutch plate in one way. Be
      sure that the drive legs of the pinion fully engage the
      plate, and are aligned properly in the cutouts. (There
      should be no more than 1/64" of wobble or play where
      the pinion drive legs meet the clutch plate. Replace
      the pinion and/or clutch plate if there is excessive
      wear in this area.)

      4. Slide the plate &amp; pinion assembly on to the shaft. Be
      sure that the steel sleeve stays inside the bronze
      pinion sleeve. There is a timing mark on the nylon
      camwheel, in the form of a round 'bump' between two of
      the gear teeth. There is also a timing mark on one of
      the pinion gear teeth. This mark will be either be a
      punch mark on the face of one of the teeth, or a tooth
      that is shorter in width than the others. Align the
      timing marks and engage the pinion teeth wil the cam-
      wheel at that location. THE TIMING MARKS ON THE PINION
      AND THE NYLON CAMWHEEL MUST BE CORRECTLY ALIGNED!
      Failure to do so will result in misfeeds and improper
      operation of the distributor. After installation,
      ensure that the pinion drive legs did not separate from
      the inner clutch plate.

      5. Slide the thin oil seal washer on to the shaft until it
      contacts the inner clutch plate, then slide the nylon
      clutch worm on to the shaft until it contacts the oil
      seal washer. NOTE: The clutch worm must be installed
      in the correct direction. Look for the word 'FRONT' or
      'OUT' on the worm... that surface faces AWAY from the
      distributor. Improper installation will cause improper
      operation (and possibly damage to clutch components).

      6. Install the friction ring and outer clutch plate,
      orienting the plate so it can be rotated on to the
      clutch worm. Rotate the outer clutch plate so the
      clutch worm engages the plate enough to hold it in
      place. Do not 'bottom out' the plate and friction
      ring! The clutch worm will pull away from the oil
      seal, and will cause improper operation if it is
      fastened down in this condition.

      7. Install the outer washer, followed by the nut. Tighten
      the nut only FINGER-TIGHT.

      8. Rotate the outer clutch plate the rest of the way on
      to the clutch worm, until the friction ring snugs
      against the inner clutch plate. Ensure that the
      friction ring stays within the flange on the inner
      clutch plate and does not pinch against it.

      9. Install the tension spring on to the outer clutch
      plate by passing the leg of the spring fully through
      the cutouts on the outer clutch plate. Ensure that
      the leg has passed completely through the plate; if
      it becomes trapped inside the clutch, it can damage
      the clutch worm or friction ring during operation.

      10. Set the starting tension of the spring by rotating
      the spring plate in the direction of the spring's
      winding (The spring will compress... if it expands,
      it is being turned in the wrong direction, and will
      cause the outer clutch plate to come loose.) The
      starting tension of the spring is 1 full turn. When
      setting the tension, also make sure that the clutch
      is held in place by the stop blade so it does not
      rotate when the spring is turned. When the tension
      is applied, align the closest teeth of the spring
      plate to the nut, and slide the plate over the nut
      to hold the spring in place.

      11. If working on an even-numbered machine, skip to #12.
      Inspect the drive shaft, universal joint, and BE
      gearbox for signs of wear or damage. If applicable,
      check the U-joint rubber boot for tearing or grease
      leakage. Wipe off the majority of the old grease
      from the T-bearing on the shaft, and the drive horns
      of the BE gearbox.
      Re-grease the T-bearing and the inner surfaces of the
      gearbox drive horns with fresh grease. Apply a THIN
      film of grease to the end of the distributor shaft
      where it meets the universal joint.
      Reinstall the drive shaft and pin by sliding the
      T-bearing of the shaft into the drive horns of the
      gearbox, then push the distributor towards the #7 bin
      pocket until the universal joint can engage the
      distributor shaft. Push or pull the distributor belt
      to rotate the shaft until the holes in the distributor
      shaft aligns fully with the back of the cutouts on the
      universal joint, then reinstall the snap-pin or roll
      pin through the distributor shaft and universal joint.
      (If using a roll pin, the pin will need to be driven
      in and centered using a hammer and punch. Use caution
      to prevent the distributor shaft from being bent.)

      12. If working on an odd-numbered machine, skip this step.
      Remove the drive shaft by rotating the distributor
      shaft (push or pull the distributor belt) until the
      roll pin in the distributor shaft lines up with the
      removal cutouts on the universal joint. Swing the
      distributor towards the #10 bin pocket and pull the
      drive shaft away from the distributor until it
      disengages the distributor shaft. Remove the majority
      of the old grease from the T-bearing on the shaft, and
      the drive horns of the BE gearbox. Inspect the shaft,
      T-bearing, U-joint, and BE gearbox drive horns for wear
      or damage. Inspect the condition of the distributor
      shaft and roll pin. If applicable, check the U-joint
      rubber boot for tearing or grease leakage. Re-grease
      the T-bearing and the inner surfaces of the drive horns
      with fresh grease. Apply a THIN film of grease to the
      distributor shaft where it meets the universal joint.
      Reinstall the drive shaft by sliding the T-bearing into
      the BE gearbox drive horns, then swing the distributor
      towards the #10 bin pocket until the U-joint will fit
      over the end of the distributor shaft. Align the
      cutouts of the U-joint with the roll pin by rotating
      the distributor shaft (push or pull the dist. belt)
      until the U-joint fully engages the roll pin on the
      distributor shaft.


      D. TESTING &amp; ADJUSTMENT

      1. Apply power to the machine with the 'PIT', 'S', and 'T'
      switches in the 'OFF' position.

      2. Turn on only the PIT switch and observe the operation
      of the distributor clutch and drive shaft. Index the
      distributor through all 10 positions by gently pressing
      down on the trip lever at the front of the distributor.
      Check that the clutch and distributor are operating
      smoothly and properly. If any noise or erratic operation
      is noted, shut off machine and re-check the clutch and
      driveshaft assembly, then repeat the testing steps.

      3. Cycle the machine to allow 10 pins to be fed to the
      distributor. Watch the distributor movement while
      feeding the pins - look for signs of stalling or
      improper operation. If the distributor stalls, slows
      down, or jams while traveling between the 4-7, 6-10,
      or while returning from 9 to 1, the clutch tension is
      too low. If the distributor jams in other areas, sways
      excessively when stopping at a bin pocket, or the front
      trip lever seems to be too tight (the weight of the pin
      is barely enough to press it down), the tension is set
      too high, or there may be a problem with the clutch.
      Shut off the pit, then tighten or loosen the clutch
      tension spring 1-2 notches on the nut, then repeat this
      step until the operation is smooth and stall-free. If
      erratic operation continues after the tension has been
      adjusted 2-3 times, there may be a problem with the
      clutch or an additional problem with the distributor.

      4. Cycle the machine two or three more times, allowing
      two or three more sets of pins to be fed. Note the
      operation of the clutch and motion of the distributor.
      If stalling or jamming is noted at any time, refer to
      Step 3 above to adjust the clutch tension.

      5. When the distributor successfully feeds 2-3 sets of
      pins to the bin without jamming or stalling, the machine
      can be returned to regular service. Depending on
      environmental conditions and lineage, the clutch may
      need a small amount of additional tension during the
      next few days of operation, especially when the clutch
      is run for a long enough period to become warm.
      Adjust as per Step 3, but advance only ONE notch on the
      spring plate at a time, then allow the clutch to run
      normally; noting the operation for stalling. Normally,
      the clutch will require no more than 3 notches of
      tension to run properly. More than this amount can
      signify a problem with the clutch or the distributor.

      Wang

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 82-70's Dist.

        Could be the following;

        But as wahsam said the friction disc &amp; plate are to be completely clean &amp; dry, never put a lubricant on the clutch.

        Have you checked to see if the eccentric rollers are'nt adjusted to tight.

        or check the "O"pan and make sure their is enough clearnce so that it's not rubbing the pinwheel.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 82-70's Dist.

          Thanks everyone, I'll be working on this Wed.

          Coolfoxx

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 82-70's Dist.

            the problem is that the dist is hanging up around the 4 and 7 and around the 6 and 10. i adj the clutch 2 notches. cleaned the big plastic gear
            [/QB][/QUOTE]

            A few possibilities that come to mind:

            1.) Some kind of issue with the distributor drive shaft, bad/worn drive weld housing or bearings. Maybe a problem with the universal joint

            2.) One of the cam followers is binding against the index cam, or quite possibly a bad index cam follower

            3.) Also, you mentioned you cleaned the index cam, did you notice any unusual wear on the lobes?

            4.) Possibly a bent carriage tube or eccentrics are too tight

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 82-70's Dist.

              Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
              the problem is that the dist is hanging up around the 4 and 7 and around the 6 and 10. i adj the clutch 2 notches. cleaned the big plastic gear
              Coolfoxx
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Going from the 4-7 and 6-10 the distributor has to retract about the same distance and the 7 and 10 positions are the furthest it swings side-to-side. Because of that, my money is on the drive shaft/housing or index cam. Let me ask you this, with the machine running, if you put the distributor at the 7 and 10 positions and leave it there, does it bounce around or sit there solid.

              Please post what you find.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 82-70's Dist.

                it does bounce. and forgot to say the plastic behind the clutch plate dosen't make it back to the stop. it stops about half way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 82-70's Dist.

                  Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
                  , oiled the clutch plate,
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please tell me you put a small drop of oil on the thrust washer next to the pinion gear, and not on the steel facings or nylon ring... if there's any oil on those areas, I'd be surprised if it would run at all.
                  <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 82-70's Dist.

                    Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
                    it does bounce. and forgot to say the plastic behind the clutch plate dosen't make it back to the stop. it stops about half way.
                    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm...

                    So the clutch does not make a full revolution, assuming the stop blade is not dragging on the collar on the clutch plate, and there are no binds ANYWHERE else on the distributor- (eccentrics, index cam, etc.), and the drive shaft assembly/housing are good, then I would lean more towards a clutch tension issue.
                    But you say it's bouncing at the corner pins? That has to be a drive shaft issue then. Check the drive housing for wear and replace if there is any, lube it also. Make sure the drive shaft assembly is in good shape-universal, bearings, properly lubed, etc. If the housing is worn or something is bad on the drive shaft, that can cause what you describe.
                    That I think covers just about everything. What else could it possibly be? If I've left anything out someone else will chime in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 82-70's Dist.

                      Originally posted by TheGMan143:
                      </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
                      , oiled the clutch plate,
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please tell me you put a small drop of oil on the thrust washer next to the pinion gear, and not on the steel facings or nylon ring... if there's any oil on those areas, I'd be surprised if it would run at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's nothing. One time I found antiseize all inside the clutch ass'y. WTF?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 82-70's Dist.

                        The 70 distributor is a fickle woman.

                        It will do all it can to make your life hell at all times.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 82-70's Dist.

                          Originally posted by TheGMan143:
                          </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Coolfoxx:
                          , oiled the clutch plate,
                          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please tell me you put a small drop of oil on the thrust washer next to the pinion gear, and not on the steel facings or nylon ring... if there's any oil on those areas, I'd be surprised if it would run at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The other mechanic at the alley taught me how to do clutches. Everything is pretty much the same except for the fact that he instructed me to liberally oil the clutch ring. I never understood why you would even want to have oil on the friction plate. We use the oil can and run a ring around the face and spread it on both sides. I always thought that was the way to do it but never understood why. We put a turn and a half on the tension spring and tweak it from there. Average maybe 2-3 jams/day on 48 lanes with quite a bit of open bowling. Not sure how many of them are clutch-related.
                          Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 82-70's Dist.

                            We had a problem with a clutch that would get stuck halfway, turned out being a slightly warped cam. Watch the pinion gear as the machine loads and see where it rides on the pinion gear. If it seems to move quite a distance from left to right as it makes a complete revolution you might have a cam follower that slips off. You might even be able to tell by checking the track of the cam follower on the cam. If it moves way to the outside edge at a certain point that might be your problem. I fixed ours temporarily by adding a small washer behind the follower making sure the follower could still spin freely and that it didn't stick out so far as to contact the cam face during a revolution.
                            Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 82-70's Dist.

                              I've also had this problem with the thick black belts from Vantage. When we went to the Stahls gripper belts, dist. had no problem pulling back at 4-7 and 6-10.
                              My mom always said there was one crazy person on every bus,... but I could never find him.

                              Comment

                              Topic Starter RibbonScript

                              Collapse

                              Adsense Classic 2

                              Collapse
                              widgetinstance 666 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                               

                              Well this is a first.

                              We all from time to time have one of those “wow I’ve never seen THAT before” moments. Well today was one of those for me when my night tech texts me to say lane 16 is out...
                               

                              Ball return wheel guide roller removal.

                              Hey guys, i could just use a bit of advice trying to get this part out, first time I've had to do one of these. I got it to move a few turns but its come to a point where it has...
                               

                              Even old mechanics find something new.

                              All my years working on these things I never had this happen…… until last week. ...
                               

                              82-90XL Frontend Gearbox Parts - Rebuild Woes

                              We have 5 of the 088000365 replacement gear kits on the shelf, and I pulled two gearboxes off machines earlier this week, so I thought I'd try my hand at rebuilding them and save...
                               

                              Prolane damage

                              Can this be repaired?
                               

                              LED Ball Lights

                              Made an LED conversion for A2's and Frameworx masks. It can also be modded for the Harmony masks to accept 2 x 5mm led's and/or a 12v supply. Once I'm happy with the performance/design...
                              Working...
                              X