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No cycle or sweep run


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  • No cycle or sweep run

    Hi all. I have a chassis problem. I am getting no cycle or sweep run. I have 70's with omega-teks and expanders. The problem is definitely in the chassis. Here's what I've done so far.

    1. Replaced the MK-70 and expander boards.
    2. Replaced the 070-005-666 thermal breaker
    3. Replaced M and M2 relays.
    4. Inspected C1 and C-2A plugs (both fine)
    5. Replaced small 836 transformer
    6. Cut out CP1 capacitor from circuit (not needed
    with teks)
    7. Checked all wiring to sweep contacts (all ok)

    It seems like a low voltage problem, like it is simply not getting a signal to cycle. Not sure, though. Any thoughts or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks for your help!

  • #2
    Re: No cycle or sweep run

    Machine is on practice up front.


    • #3
      Re: No cycle or sweep run

      Did you check the gps, sometimes the fingers look open but it won't cycle.
      Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.


      • #4
        Re: No cycle or sweep run

        Nope. It's in the chassis. I moved the chassis to another HOUSE and the problem moved with it. Any ideas on what inside the chassis would be causing this, other than what I already checked?


        • #5
          Re: No cycle or sweep run

          Check the C2a plug wires 22 and 21 (5+6) from the A=mc, they are responsible for turning the machine on. Perhaps they may need re pinned or crimped ??
          Check the M relay socket, which the relay sits in on the underside of the chassis. Perhaps there's a loose or bad connection there?
          Take a close look at the Fuses also. Sounds like it could be a bad f1 OR f3 fuse? Replace the fuses with good ones and also double check the housings for the fuses also. They may need re-soldered (if old style) or replaced. Check for continuity here. (unlike my posts where continuity is hard to find!)
          Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!


          • #6
            Re: No cycle or sweep run

            Thanks Alastair. We checked everything you listed. All checks out good. Since the CP1 capacitor is not needed with the omega-tek boards, is it possible to eliminate the CP2 and CP3 capacitors as well? I was thinking that one of these may be bad but I do not have them in stock. If I can eliminate them from the circuit without affecting anything, that would be very helpful.


            • #7
              Re: No cycle or sweep run

              Firstly, I love the fact that you reproduced the problem in another house - fantastic, lol [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] .

              The instructomat would not explain no sweep run since it doesn't block SA or SWS sweep run. It only blocks sweep run on cycle start.

              The GPS only blocks time-down (and hence table) on 1st ball. It does not block sweep run or cycle start.

              You do need one of the caps for expanders I believe (though I don't have expanders nor any of the caps, but I've previously read it here that one of the caps is required).

              Need more info:
              -Does sweep run with SA or SWS?
              -Is the machine on?
              -Does each M relay turn on (pull them out to see if they click)?
              -Pinlamps on?
              -Will the table run from TA1?
              -Does sweep contactor turn on (albeit with no sweep motor run)?
              -Does the zero stepper button change cycles?
              -If you hold out SB for a few seconds, does the table start running (let go of SB and the machine should complete a cycle)?

              If it's just the sweep contactor that doesn't activate (but everything else works), then start from C2A-16 and trace wires to the varistor on heatsink and sweep contactor, then from C2A-21 to motherboard and to other side of varistor on heatsink and other side of sweep contactor.

              If it's both sweep and table contactors (but everything else works), then check fuse #3, check wires at these points: Fuse#3, C2A-11, M-9, M-11 and C2A-35. Finally, check pins 9 and 11 on M relay.



              • #8
                Re: No cycle or sweep run

                Andrew, thank you so much for the very helpful information. As soon as I get into work in the morning, I will be checking all that you mentioned. To clarify...

                Sweep does not run thru SA or SWS.
                Machine is on.
                Do not know what happens when I pull the M relays out with power..I will find out.
                Pinlamps are on.
                Sweep contactor does not turn on.
                Not sure about the stepper button....I will find out.
                I will also find out what happens when I pull out SB.

                I'm gonna hit the sack and start fresh in the morning. Thanks again Andrew.



                • #9
                  Re: No cycle or sweep run

                  Does the pit run when the machine is on?

                  Also check the diode under the relay socket. If it is bust then this will give you the problems you described also.
                  Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!


                  • #10
                    Re: No cycle or sweep run

                    Yes, pit does run when the machine is on. The diode under the M relay socket is fine. OK, here's where we're at so far....

                    No sweep or table run thru SA or TA-1.
                    No sweep run thru SWS.
                    Both M relays do turn off and back on when I pull them out of the chassis under power.
                    Pinlamps are on.
                    Sweep contactor does not turn on.
                    I can stepper the chassis from first to second ball and vice-versa.
                    Nothing happens when I hold out SB.
                    I am getting power at F1, F2 and F3 (used volt meter to verify).
                    Also checked all associated wiring at the C-2A points that you described Andrew.
                    And still no luck with this bugger.
                    Could it be the transformer? I am doubting it because it seems like a low voltage issue, but I am running out of ideas here.


                    • #11
                      Re: No cycle or sweep run

                      Sounds like maybe you could have lost ground to both the S & T contactors (24V) if both are not engerizing. Just taking a wild guess.... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
                      People tell me I'm indecisive, but I just don't know...


                      • #12
                        Re: No cycle or sweep run

                        Hmmmmmm…..this does sound like a brain tickler. When you say you have power at the F3, did you check both legs (on the fuse holder) to ground with your volt meter set to AC?

                        I believe the F3 is the last thing inline (besides the toggles) before power is applied to the coils. I don’t have my schematics with me at this time to verify this.



                        • #13
                          Re: No cycle or sweep run

                          Well it does sound a very interesting fault!

                          Both sweep and table will run when you depress the contactors manually I take it??? Long shot at both contactors need replaced?? Doubt it though.

                          It does sound like a low voltage problem. My money is still on the fuse or in the C2a plug.
                          Take a male pin and introduce it to each of the female pins individually on the C2a plug (oo err). If any of the female pins are easy to slide into, or are loose then change them. If you can not insert the male pin in easily, or it wont go in at all, then also change out the female pin.
                          It can be a bit tricky at times. One of my worst fears is to have to re-pin an entire c2A plug. Doesn't look easy. Obviously do-able, but hope I dont have to do it any time soon.

                          There is also a grey wire from the transformer which is related to shadow bowl. A ground wire? I don't have my notes to hand so can't go into details at present. I'm sure Andrew will chime in here with the specifics!
                          Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!


                          • #14
                            Re: No cycle or sweep run

                            Yep Triac. I checked both legs on the F3 fuse holder. Volt meter is on AC of course.
                            Alastair, when I depress the sweep and table contactors, they run the sweep and table perfectly. Re-wiring the C-2A is actually a piece of cake. I've done lots of them. You have me curious about this mysterious grey wire from the transformer related to shadow bowl. If I can, I'll sneak in later tonite to take another crack at it.


                            • #15
                              Re: No cycle or sweep run

                              If you are reading 24 volts on both sides of F3 I would check the M relay contacts 9 & 11 and make sure you can read continuity between Mrelay 11 andC2A 35U . This leads down to the interlock circuit and wont let the relays pull in .
                              Hope this helps


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