No cycle and overheating sweep

[BG Member Find all posts View Profile Close BG]

I dunno what it is with me lately. I have yet another problem, though this is a little different. I am getting no cycle on this machine (lane 17). I've put 3 different chassis on this bugger. I do get a sweep and table run though. Here's a clue. When I run the sweep, the top blue resistor under the wireway (on the other side of the s & t capacitors) gets real hot and starts smoking..but only when I run the sweep. Here's what I've checked so far...

1. Russell-Stoll Plug
2. Sweep Motor
3. Sweep Motor Plug
4. Potential Relay
5. C1 and C-2A Plugs
6. Changed Chassis 3 Times
7. Checked wiring in wirewsy.

Any thoughts or ideas would be most appreciated, as usual [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks!
Bob

[JimDorsin Members Find all posts View Profile Close JimDorsin]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Thats the cap discharge resistor. Shouldent have anything to do with cyceling.

Have you, by chance, checked the desk toggles to see make sure its not in instruct-o-mat? I would then check the instruct-o-mat wiring in the A+MC box, or possibly a short underground along the same circuit.

[deb Members Find all posts View Profile Close deb]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Well, I ain't no mekkanick but I sure would tend to that red hot smoking thing first.

Does OSHA mandate the placement of fire extinguishers?

[JimDorsin Members Find all posts View Profile Close JimDorsin]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Hope I didnt insinuate that it shouldent be addressed, I just dont think its part of the cyceling problem. I would start with checking the caps myself, but its not going to get that hot when the machine wont run....lol

[Alastair Find all posts View Profile Close Alastair]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Yes I agree, swop out the sweep capacitors with known good ones.

Also make sure that the two resitors are not touching each other in the wire-way as this will cause bad things!!

Take out the A+MC plug and jump across 5+6 on the plug end (female) with a wire with two male ends.
Jump the mask as well, across 2 and 28 depending on what type of mask you have. Just to eliminate the mask switch or any other funny business.
Swop out the entire gearbox and stator for the sweep, just incase the gearing is gone in the motor?
Could be a bad Klixton also?

Does it start from the start switch on the cussion or a trigger?
I take it it will not cycle from the control box either at the back of the machine?

Interesting one again BJ.

[wb8yjf Member Find all posts View Profile Close wb8yjf]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Yea ifin that resistor is smoking, you have another problem! But if the sweep dosn't run, since that is the first thing to run during a cycle, the sweep motor/gearbox is probably causing the problem. Capacitors tend to let you know when they are really bad! *BOOM* I hate that smell & the mess they make.... :p

Jon

[Lampie Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lampie]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Be sure the connectors of the upper resistor are faced down wards, they can be shortened/grounded if you close the wire way if they are up wards.

The other problem looks like a short in the B-O-I circuit, like Paul said.

[BG Member Find all posts View Profile Close BG]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Yep Paul. The MCS is not in insructomat. I didn't think to check the A&MC actually since this seems like a high voltage issue if it's causing the resistor to smoke. I will address it though. I DO know that the sweep motor and gearbox are fine...I plugged the table motor plug into the sweep and ran it that way and there were no issues. Deb. rest assured we have the extinguishers in all their proper places [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] .
I did make sure the connectors weren't touching each other (that's originally what I thought it was).The caps sound like they could be the problem. I'll replace both of them. Alastair, it doesn't cycle from anywhere, but I can run the sweep and table manually thru the contactors, and I can run the sweep from the rear control box, but again, I get the resistor overheating and smoking running the sweep. Jon, do you have something against exploding caps??? lol.
Thanks for your help everybody. If you have anymore suggestions that would be great. In the meantime I'm gonna hit this thing up first thing tomorrow morning with a fresh head.

Bob

[Ted Tech of the Year 2006 Find all posts View Profile Close Ted]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

If the neutral wire to the motor has a bad connection, the motor will seek a neutral - sometimes through a ground - and cause that resistor to get too hot.

As a side, I blew a cap trying to prevent the deck light from blinking when the sweep motor started.

After I changed my panties, the lane looked like confetti was all over it.

[TheGMan143 Members Find all posts View Profile Close TheGMan143]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Originally posted by Ted:
As a side, I blew a cap trying to prevent the deck light from blinking when the sweep motor started.

After I changed my panties, the lane looked like confetti was all over it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAO... Wonderful when one'a those things goes off under your nose, ain't it? Aside from the possible soiling of "el ropas interior", you usually wind up with a nice knot on the gourd, patching up a scraped up skull and back from bouncing your grape off the masking unit hangers... the 'capacitor confetti' and that lovely burnt popcorn smell they make tops it off nicely. Almost seems like a mildly twisted party sideshow act. Funny as hell as long as you're the spectator and not the recipient of the event. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[wb8yjf Member Find all posts View Profile Close wb8yjf]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotflol.gif[/img] true dat!

[Andrew Members Find all posts View Profile Close Andrew]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Does the resistor glow red for longer than it takes the motor to start?

If the ballast resitor is glowing red, it suggests to me an above-normal amount of current being held for an above-normal length of time (seconds, but that's longer than normal) - i.e. longer than it takes the sweep to start. It should power off as soon as the sweep starts.

The high current could be explained by the corresponding parallel capacitor being open-circuit.

In addition, for current to continuously pass through the ballast resistor (longer than normal) indicates that the start winding is staying in-circuit, which it shouldn't.

So I think a) a cap is bad, and b) something else made it go bad and is still keeping the cap and resistors in circuit.

Since you ran the sweep motor with the table circuit, then it suggests a misplaced wire in the sweep circuit.

Another place to check is the wiring on the sweep reverse switch and the switch itself. Ensure no wires are switched, and none are touching things they should not. If you have a sweep-reverse relay outside the chassis, check that too and related wiring.

Did the resistor glow for all three chassis (I assume so, but possibly you only noticed that after trying the third chassis)?

As for the cycle issue: I can't think of what would relate the cycle input with the sweep motor high-voltage circuit, other than possibly two wires got switched and runnign the sweep out high-voltage on the cycle input (destroying the input circuit on the board)?? We might work out more once the sweep motor circuit is fixed.

Cheers,
Andrew.

[triac Members Find all posts View Profile Close triac]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

In addition to the advice given about the “glowing” resistor…Check your jumper wire (in the wire way) from TS 17 to Ts 1A1. It should be white and it may be hanging on by a thread or completely toast.

Now as for the no cycle problem….Pull chassis bottom off, disconnect (and tape off) the thin gray wire going to the T2. If it now has cycle you have a short in managers control circuit to ground somewhere. This can be left off and machine will function normally. However, you will lose shadow bowl and frame counter until the short is found and gray wire re-connected.

If the gray wire doesn’t do the trick, you will be looking at the SA as the cycle circuit goes thru it. Also the SB will fool the chassis into thinking the sweep dropped (when it didn’t) but the table would run if something was bad here.

Triac

[Satanic Mechanic Members Find all posts View Profile Close Satanic Mechanic]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Quote: "Capacitors tend to let you know when they are really bad! *BOOM* I hate that smell &amp; the mess they make...."

And, make sure the top of the capacitor is facing away from you when it goes *BOOM*. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[JimDorsin Members Find all posts View Profile Close JimDorsin]

Re: No cycle and overheating sweep

Any chance you reversed the red and orange wires when installing the potential?? The motor should make a god awful noise when running, but it will still run. The orange goes to the caps, the red from the c-1 to the terminal strip to the z wire on the motor.

sometimes those really old wires, they look the same....