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  • Chassis Question

    9800 series single board. Under the bottom is what appears to be 2 diodes on the P1 recepticle. I can not find any cross reference for a part#. The # on the object is P6KE43E-8522. If any one knows a discription and good # could you please let me know.
    SGT
    U.S. Army/AVN
    Retired

  • #2
    Re: Chassis Question

    Those are varistors. They are basically a protection device. You don't have to have them for the chassis to operate correctly, in fact you can cut them out if you want. I loaned my manual to someone, the P/N should be in there somewhere.
    Jon
    I've had enough of hope & chains.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Chassis Question

      Thank you.
      SGT
      U.S. Army/AVN
      Retired

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Chassis Question

        Originally posted by wb8yjf:
        Those are varistors. They are basically a protection device. You don't have to have them for the chassis to operate correctly, in fact you can cut them out if you want. Jon
        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is probably the only area I disagree with Jon (even though he really knows his electrons) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] . I believe that any electronic circuit that shares its power with inductors such as relay coils or solenoids should be protected by some type of a snubber. Inductors can produce very large voltage spikes as the magnetic field collapses when power is removed from the coil.

        That being said….I could not find your part at work or on the internet. A little research leads me to believe that your part may be a transorb diode. I could not find that particular number (yet did find one very close) to get specs on it for replacement. A transorb diode is very similar to a varsitor but they have different properties about clamping and failing.

        In the past I have recommended removing a varsitor for test purpose only. Normally this is a good test if the varsitor is beginning to fail (no way to really test them that I know of, unless they fail shorted). However, something was still wrong with the chassis after removing the varsitor (probably an inductor or erratic supply voltage) and it fried the driver circuit (not the relay coil)….so I don’t recommend this anymore.

        Triac

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Chassis Question

          I just knew that would draw some attention! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Triac is correct about the inductor spike (relay/contactor coil) &amp; the triac (heh heh) can usually handle this spike, but sometimes it will kill the driver (triac). I meant you can run the chassis w/o them, but they were put there for a reason. What is kinda wird is how a triac can still get cooked even with the varistor/transzorb in the circuit. As he mentioned, I don't know of a way to test 'em except when they are shorted, they will show a short, otherwise they look like they are open. AMF used several varieties of these over the years. The black diode looking type is a transzorb &amp; the ones that look like a capacitor are usually a varistor. Basically they are 2 zener type diodes pointed at each other.

          Damn, triac you need to change ur user name - it is confusing as he!! when talking about THIS subject! :p [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
          I've had enough of hope & chains.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Chassis Question

            You know 2 triacs are better than one?
            Sometimes to work 2 shifts, sometimes to start and then break a motor.


            What????

            I agree Jon, he should assume a ficticious name whilst talking watts.
            .
            .
            .
            This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Chassis Question

              Originally posted by Ted:
              I agree Jon, he should assume a ficticious name whilst talking watts.
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Watt u talkin’ bout Willis? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

              I guess I could change my name to Rectifier….but that sounds a little anal. Diode sounds a little to AC to DC…..Resistor sounds like a Militia….Transformer sounds like a toy or a cross dresser. User names Jon and Ted are already taken….So I’ll continue to confuse (as this is my normal state of mind [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ) the masses with the screen name Triac.

              Triac

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Chassis Question

                LaRue,if you can hang on till Thursday I can dig out the amf part# for you.
                I ordered some several months ago albeit they where put on back order as they did`nt have any in stock! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]
                Triforce.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Chassis Question

                  Originally posted by triac:
                  </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ted:
                  I agree Jon, he should assume a ficticious name whilst talking watts.
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Watt u talkin’ bout Willis? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                  I guess I could change my name to Rectifier….but that sounds a little anal. Diode sounds a little to AC to DC…..Resistor sounds like a Militia….Transformer sounds like a toy or a cross dresser. User names Jon and Ted are already taken….So I’ll continue to confuse (as this is my normal state of mind [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ) the masses with the screen name Triac.

                  Triac
                  </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about going old school and using Triode, Tetrode, or Pentode? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                  I've had enough of hope & chains.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Chassis Question

                    Triac, nice post by the way!

                    What about TTL? or perhaps Transducer? on second thoughts sounds a little like a gay transformer! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                    Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Chassis Question

                      Hi all, under the edge connector are Transiet voltage suppresors (transorbs) 748-010-034 &amp; under the M relay is a varistor (which took me 3 months to get one!) 761-700-002.
                      Hope this helps (&amp; hope its right!!!)
                      Cheers from down under...
                      Darren.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Chassis Question

                        Chip is a nice name.

                        Others are:
                        -Fet (Bubba-Fet was an electrical engineer in Star Wars [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] )
                        -Mos (Mos-Fet, cousin of Bubba-Fet)
                        -Reg (as in 5V Reg)
                        -Henry (the unit of measure of inductance)
                        -Spike (avoid if possible)
                        -Poly (for the girls)

                        A varistor usually fails shorted. That's easy to test by disconnecting one leg and testing for resistance.

                        They also (fairly often) fail with a reduced breakdown voltage. Repeated or sustained surges absorbed by the varistor can cause the breakdown voltage (the voltage at which it 'trips') to decrease over time until eventually it will trip at less than the supply voltage. This results in the fuse/CB tripping as soon as the protected device is turned on (e.g. as soon as, say, the sweep contactor is supposed to engage).

                        This case is harder to test because when you remove the voltage, the resistance of the varistor returns to a high level (as if normal). One way to test this is to use a test circuit that provides the device with a variable voltage so you can measure the breakdown level. The easier way is to replace the varistor. An indication of this situation is that the varistor will be warm after repeated trips.

                        And my long-standing rule - NEVER leave a varistor out of a circuit - even for testing. That's like bypassing a fuse to see if the fuse is faulty. If you suspect the varistor, replace it. They are cheeeeeeep. You could even put it back again if you find that it wasn't the problem and don't want to waste a cent.

                        Answering Jon's question: a triac can still get cooked with the varistor in circuit because the varistor doesn't protect against high currents (a fuse/CB/polyswitch provides over-current protection). A triac would usually survive the situation several times (it's not that easy to kill a triac with very short current surges at the levels found in our chassis). Excess voltage on the triac input/gate is probably the easier way to kill one, but that should be rare in most circuits (e.g. in the chassis) since the input is a low voltage (and filtered, steady, etc).

                        Cheers,
                        Andrew.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Chassis Question

                          I appreciate all the info. I should know this stuff since I am ASCET qualified but I have never had to deal with a transorb. I looked at NTE cross reference and could not find them. The one that was in the chassis was shorted. It works fine without it but as Triac said I would rather have it installed. Thanks for the part # Darren.
                          SGT
                          U.S. Army/AVN
                          Retired

                          Comment

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