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  • what did I miss?

    Took on a side job today. 1st problem was a sweep motor that would run ok if you hold down sweep run switch. If sweep stops at 270 during a real cycle the motor humms from 270 to 0. They have Westinghouse motors. The manager said the initial problem was a shorted out be motor wire that fried the C-1 plug. He changed block and thats when it stopped working. Motor has been changed, Chassis has been changed, capacitors have been replaced. I checked C-1 plug to double check that he didnt cross a couple of wires. I checked both ends of sweep motor harness. Wires are old and cracked but not broken. When sweep is at zero it will run but starts slow and also coasts. What am I missing? Thanks in advance. The problem is constant.

  • #2
    Re: what did I miss?

    My first guess would be that the start circuit is faulty (based on the fact that it only really likes starting from 0 and apparently has no braking).

    I would check the sweep reverse switch if you haven't already and the associated wiring.

    But, if it was just an absent start circuit, then it would then run fine once it is running, but then I'm suprised it makes it from 270 to 0 at all. That kinda implies a starting circuit that doesn't cut off like it should, or one that is missing or bypassing a capacitor.

    Check that the ballast resistor reads 625ohm from side to centre (each side).

    Then it would be a matter of double-checking all wiring for wrong connections (e.g. the recently-rewired C1 plug) and especially the wiring near the capacitors and ballast resistors.

    Cheers,
    Andrew.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: what did I miss?

      Clutch,

      Did you check the terminal strip where the wires from the C-1 plug run too.

      I've had a few instances where someone changed the C-1 plug and
      accidently pulled a wire or two off the terminal board.

      Just a thought.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: what did I miss?

        Sounds like the two green resistors may be touching in the wire-ways beside the caps, if they touch the sweep will run slow and then hum.
        Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: what did I miss?

          CLUTCH

          LOOK IN THE ELECTRICAL SECTION OF THE MANUAL AND DO THE CONTINUITY TEST WITH POWER OFF FOR THE SWEEP/TABLE PLUG
          IF ALL 4 PAIRS PASS, SWITCH THE ENTIRE MOTOR/GEARBOX WITH ANOTHER LANE. THESE TESTS SHOULD HELP YOU FIND THE PROBLEM.
          MUCH BETTER THAN TRIAL & ERROR TECHNIQUE OF CHANGING OUT PARTS UNTIL THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY

          REGARDS, GARO 82/70 TECH

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: what did I miss?

            Nice time to have a jumper cord. Plug into table motor and the other into the sweep motor. Then run the sweep motor off the table switches.
            If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." -W.C.Fields

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: what did I miss?

              Ditto on the jumper cord, the one I use can jump over two machines if I need to, save alot of motor changing.

              My guess would be the circuitry between the motor plug and C-1, seen the resistor problem Alastair mentions too.

              This may be a push but has anyone changed the sweep reverse switch, I've seen issues there too.
              Please.....follow the instructions!!

              John
              804-240-4982

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: what did I miss?

                John Isbell; Show OFF! Now I have to make mine Go From 1-24.
                Not really because if someone else is using my jumper I want it short enough as to Not Hurt Themselves. < >
                If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." -W.C.Fields

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: what did I miss?

                  Safety, Safety, Safety..........Hehehe, can't be said enough.
                  If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." -W.C.Fields

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: what did I miss?

                    First of all, get RID of the cracked wires! Also, have you tried changing the contactor? All of the suggestions are valid & merit looking into! The aftermarket contacts made for the original open frame contactors absolutly suck. Usually the uppers are a problem, but I've seen lowers cause crap too. If this problem started after someone replaced the C1 block, did he replace the actual chassis mounted block OR how about the block/pins on the machine side? People tend to forget the machine end of the C1 block. Also, if the chassis end fried, it would be logical to eyeball or even replace the machine end (pins or block or both) Bad pins = bad results.

                    Just thinking out loud.....I need to get the hell offa the 'puter and give my woman a squeeze.....yea, Felix, I'm a pervert!
                    I've had enough of hope & chains.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: what did I miss?

                      Yeah, I have found if a motor goes bad for what ever reason, this can total ruin the contactor in the chassis. Had a bad sweep motor the other day and solved the problem, a few days later no sweep run at all, due to the fact the contactor was fried!

                      Remember to check the C1 pins are correct.

                      (looking at chassis)
                      Row 1 top right pin = contactor NO 43
                      Row 3 furthest right = contactor NC 31
                      Row 3 2nd in = contactor NO 44
                      Row 3 3rd in = contactor NC 21
                      Row 3 4th in = contactor NC 32

                      (but you will have checked this already!)
                      Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: what did I miss?

                        Clutch wanted me to tell you all thank you for all the replys...He'll be going back to this center on Saturday and will post back what he finds.

                        He's not been able to log in.
                        Lifes to short to stress on little things.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: what did I miss?


                          Sorry for the long delay between posts. My password was not working so I had to re register. Anyways thats the least of my problems.

                          OK, heres the update on the trouble machine. I replaced the sweep rev sw. I triple checked to make sure the manager didnt cross a couple of wires when rewiring the c-1 plug. I did find a capacitor wire disconnected from TS-23. Thought I found the problem, but no. I am now burning 17DD in the C-1 plug. 17DD goes to TSA2 and joins the red wire to terminal #4 of the sweep rev sw. I am exhausted and totally out of ideas. Im hoping someone has had this problem before.


                          Ps. I also swapped the green resistors and its a different chassis.
                          If it cant be fixed with a hammer, use a bowling pin.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: what did I miss?

                            What kind of chassis do you have. The machine diagram shows conversions from MP to SS and visa versa.

                            After looking at the diagrams for the machines and the SS chassis...there seems to be a contoversy where Z on the motor plug goes. One says TSE1 and the other says TSA 2.

                            With RS pulled check some of these continuities and SWSR in normal position:

                            Y - CT
                            X - C1 22J
                            Z -TS23
                            Nil - TS1A1 (white jumper) - TS17

                            BTW...Welcome back again

                            Triac

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: what did I miss?

                              The difference is whether the chassis has a sweep reverse relay, whether it's an MP and how old it is (whether it was converted from SS to MP, or whether it was built after '85) and whether it has certain solid-state start switches (e.g. Cybernetic).

                              Since it uses C1-17, then it has a chassis sweep reverse relay (because that's where the connection is made), but can't really guess on the other stuff.

                              A good procedure is to compare to the (working) machine next to it. And let us know whether they have MP (pre or post '85) and which solid state start switches.

                              Cheers,
                              Andrew.

                              Comment

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