Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bind in deck hook linkage

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bind in deck hook linkage

    I'm having a problem with the deck holding hook lifting up and not engaging the pin during 2nd ball cycle. At first, I thought it was the detector but have ruled that out. If I manually hold the hook down, it engages the pin and cycles normally. I replaced the bronze bearings and lubed everything. I'm wondering what would cause this bind. Is it possible for the entire gearbox to shift over? Do I need to bend the hook selector link in the detector? It's been over a decade since I've worked as a full time mechanic and this has me scratching my head.

  • #2
    Check the condition of the slots in the tubes. They could be gouged up. Likewise the x washer pins there could be badly worn causing a bind. I have a machine here that the top tube is offset like yours and the machine runs fine. Start by making sure the tube slots and pins are good.

    Comment


    • #3
      I took the tubes off and lubricated them when replacing oil lite bearings. The angle seems to be just a 1/16" too tight.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd remove the rake sweep hook cam follower check it against a new one to see if it's bent. If it is it wont hurt to put it in a vice and carefully bend it. If all your hardware for mounting the gearbox is tight I doubt it has shifted. You'd have a lot more problems than just that cam follower out of align.

        Comment


        • #5
          Any history on the problem, like when it started and any related repairs?

          If the gearbox has shifted it should be noticeable looking at the rake lift cam follower or deck lift hook rubbing against the deck lift shaft...or at least being quite close.

          The 4:1 mounting plate might also be compromised.
          Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
          Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
          Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
          Kegel C.A.T.S

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kanga (James) View Post
            Any history on the problem, like when it started and any related repairs?

            If the gearbox has shifted it should be noticeable looking at the rake lift cam follower or deck lift hook rubbing against the deck lift shaft...or at least being quite close.

            The 4:1 mounting plate might also be compromised.
            I do not work at this center full time. Working on pinsetters has been something that I've been passionate about since I was 14 and I do this for fun. The only proper training I've had was a level 1 certification Phil Cantrell taught at Bowling Supply in Nashville a decade ago, but I digress. This machine has only recently started doing this particular problem. Before that, it was having issues spotting a new set of pins. I replaced the upper and lower deck cables and halfway resolved that issue(i have moving deck jam cable on order for replacement). I think I will eventually need to pull this entire deck and rebuild. Here are some more pics. Sorry I cannot be more specific on this issue. I'm unsure if something got bent in a jam one night or what. It is hard to make out from my photos, but when I'm standing and looking at the machine perpendicular to the frame, the front of the gear box seems to be slightly out of square as if it needs to be popped towards the 10pin side. If I decided to take the deck weight off the Gearbox and shift it about 1/8" over, what are the potential problems that could arise? Does the "bazooka" spring tube on the rake need to be locked before loosening gearbox U-bolt? Other than rebuilding linkage, detector, and clutch assy, I'm completely ignorant of gearbox repairs/modifications.

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's a link to a tiktok video I made of the 1st and 2nd ball cycles. Notice how the entire gearbox shifts around at the start and end of the cycle. I grinded on the deck tubes to free the binding temporarily. The deck hook still attempts to raise up at the start of the 2nd ball cycle. Do I need to replace the detector?

              https://vm.tiktok.com/9aWsHj/

              Comment


              • #8
                When you say the deck holding hook is lifting up and not engaging the deck post pin do you mean the pin is actually lifting the hook up and the hook stays up instead of dropping over the pin?

                I see you have an adjustable (lengthwise) deck holding hook. I have only ever seen this happen once in 30 years in the industry but I had a situation about 6 or 7 years ago where the adjustable deck holding hook suddenly started being lifted up by the deck post pin and sitting on top of the pin instead of the hook dropping over the pin. The deck would, of course, then descend after the 2nd ball was bowled instead of being held up on the hook. Not every cycle but quite often. If you "caught it in the act" you could just tap the hook with your finger and it would drop over the pin.

                Not sure why this suddenly started happening - must have reached a point where a certain amount of wear on this particular hook and deck post pin caused it to occur despite the deck hook adjustment being initially correct and causing no problems for a long time up to that point.

                From memory, all I did on this machine was extend the deck holding hook by about a sixteenth or an eighth of an inch and the problem was solved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The video shows a few problems.

                  Before we focus to closely on the detector you need to get the GB repositioned to properly eliminate any binding. Even though you modded the tube that doesn't guarantee there isn't something else going on there causing your holding hook issue.

                  You only need to remove the tension on both cables, support the deck and remove the GB belt. Loosen the ubolts and 4:1 support plate at its foot. Use a large pipe or equivalent and find a solid point on the gearbox and frame to shift it to the 10 pin side. It's been a VERY long time since I've shifted a gearbox on a machine and I'm not at work at the moment, but if you exercise a bit of common sense and take your time you shouldn't have a problem.

                  The other thing I noticed is that you probably have a worn or missing oilite for the rake lift cam. You can see it shift about throughout the cycle. This won't do the cam any favours.

                  Also although not urgent at the moment, it looks like you have a worn shaft/key/gear on the 1:1. You'll nottice the hiccups on the 1:1 during the cycle.

                  ​​​​
                  Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                  Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                  Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                  Kegel C.A.T.S

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kanga, these machines have been used and abused with no head mechanic or back end budget since I quit in 2009. The rake arm assembly has been welded several times and is currently broken(I'm only here 10hrs a week, 4 during a full house league.) Thank you for the info for adjusting the gearbox! I didn't think about taking tension off of the deck and scissor cables!

                    Carl D, before coming on here to ask questions here's a run down of what I've adjusted/replaced: gearbox clutch adj; replaced deck hook and oilites, deck holding hook adj.

                    Before adjustment, the deck hook was further away from the pin and made it more apparent that the hook is actually rising upward at the start of the cycle. That is what made me think detector issues initially. I would have to rebuild the spare back here before doing a swap and I just found the rebuild post on here( my detector rebuild book disappeared along with my personal copy of the service manual...)

                    Completely unrelated but figured you guys might get a kick out of this: I found what appeared to be honey mixed in with the oil in my squirt can (owner must have really pissed someone off, lol)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      At the first part of the video, I'm not able to see any forward movement of the moving deck when the gearbox engages. However, I can see the rake sweep hook cam follower move forward as the gearbox engages. If my eyes aren't deceiving me, then the detector is out of time and causing the hook to act in a sluggish manner. In addition to Kanga's observations- the cycle link is loose. It also looks like the rake is really hitting the light channel when it raises. Not dumping on you, just sharing my observations of what isn't right.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 9Nman View Post
                        At the first part of the video, I'm not able to see any forward movement of the moving deck when the gearbox engages. However, I can see the rake sweep hook cam follower move forward as the gearbox engages. If my eyes aren't deceiving me, then the detector is out of time and causing the hook to act in a sluggish manner. In addition to Kanga's observations- the cycle link is loose. It also looks like the rake is really hitting the light channel when it raises. Not dumping on you, just sharing my observations of what isn't right.
                        Is it possible for the detector to jump timing after being installed? If not, it isn't out of timing. Could something else cause the same issue? I have some free time tonight and will be rebuilding a few detectors if I can scrounge enough parts. As for the other issues, I take no offense and thank you for pointing them out. I'm only working a few hours here and there and basically jumping from one fire to the next. As mentioned before, the rake arms are broken and adjustments have been tweaked to keep the lane going without repair
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by csptn View Post

                          Is it possible for the detector to jump timing after being installed? If not, it isn't out of timing. Could something else cause the same issue?
                          I've never experienced a detector getting itself out of time after installation. Maybe severe issues with the gear on the 1:1 plate that drives the detector could mimic a detector out of time- it's never happened to me, but that doesn't mean much! Please run the machine to exactly 90 degrees with no pins on the deck. If the Strike Cam Follower isn't nestled perfectly in the low dwell of the timing cam, snuggly up against the rise back to the high, it is out of time. Adjustments can be made that allow a detector to run out of time. One being lengthening the rake crank which makes for excessive impact when it hits the stops, which leads to broken rake arms. It only takes a small amount of time to ensure it is in time and from what I'm seeing in the video you posted, it's worth verifying. As I said in my last post, since I don't see any forward movement in the deck when the gearbox engages, that tells me the Moving Deck Cam Follower is fully on the high of it's cam when it disengages at 0, but since the detector continues to move back to it's true 0 after the GB clutch engages, I'm highly suspicious of timing. I can see the D shaft in the detector moves as well when the gearbox engages, not just the Rake Sweep Hook Cam Follower.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The strike cam follower is in the low dwell of the cam at 90. This is also how I R&R detectors to ensure proper timing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Then I have nothing more at this time to offer in your struggle... other than a wish of good luck!

                              Comment

                              Topic Starter RibbonScript

                              Collapse

                              Adsense Classic 2

                              Collapse

                              Related Topics

                              Collapse

                               

                              Broken Things!

                              Here ya go. This will get us started. This came off lane 40. Feel free to pile on!...
                               

                              Help-broken Part

                              my crew was clearing a pin jam when the part fell on to the pin-deck. no enough experience to know where this is or what it's called. looking for help so we can order the part...
                               

                              Qubica VDB Battery Replacement Part 2.

                              Greeting all.
                              I am sharing a link for a video, part 2, on how I replaced the battery in a Qubica VDB unit.
                              Thanks for looking.
                              Bolton454
                               

                              Pin Damage

                              I have GSX pinsetters just over one year old. Just one of my machines is causing this damage to my pins. I have already adjusted the pin deflector boards to cover the bottom bolts...
                               

                              Gold Crown Masking Unit

                              Here are some photos of a Brunswick Gold Crown single masking unit that I refurbished. I stripped off the old orange vinyl skin and used it to make a template for the new green...
                              Working...
                              X