Bowltronics M4/ TDM Removal

[Draper]

Short Version: Can I use a BT M4 to trigger my A2s using the TDM removal process?

So I have read the post about how to remove the TDM from a machine using existing Triggering. I am trying to figure out If I can use my BT-M4 to do the cycling or not. The wires that go to the TDM have a constant read of 24vdc, Which is odd to me given the 26-28vac machine use, but I figure the TDM uses the points differently since #16 runs through the power input and 18 hits the transistor and relay. All my BT paperwork doesn't offer a theory of operation, nor do the TDMs, Which I guess is understandable, except mapping a TDM and its machine wiring just seems like a big loop. We burn through about 6 TDMs a month and I replace blown caps and resistors as I can. But when I have to purchase new ones it gets rather expensive.

[Wookie8662]

The only DC voltage on a Brunwick machine, is from the rectifier to the magnetic clutch.
The rest of the machine is 26VAC, 110 VAC, or 208/130 VAC.

Wires 13 and 14 going to the time delay module should be 26VAC.
I dont know where you are getting 24VDC from, has to be something external.
Wire 16 is just a feed off of the input terminal 13 and runs to the reset button and rake switch.

You may have non-standard time delay modules.

[Mok]

Yeah, I was just thinking that if he's getting DC voltage on terminal 13, then there are bigger problems here.

[exMech]

Short answer; yes with qualifications.

The M4 board uses a relay to duplicate the rake reset switch (when connected to tdm terminal 18) or the reset buttons when connected to terminal 17. By using this relay to trigger a stronger relay to actually trigger the cycle solenoid, you can do this.

However, there always seems to be a but. The M4 does have a delay feature that is adjustable from 1 to 6 seconds, BUT there is no feedback that I know of for second ball so the same delay will be applied to both balls. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why it uses terminal 18 of the tdm because it uses the tdm to provide the second ball 0 delay. If you can live with the extra delay on second ball then your good to go. There are other ways to deal with the delay but that involves additional parts.

I can't speak to all tdm's but the one we have been documenting recently in this post, https://www.bowltech.com/forum/pinse...ol#post1104902, does in fact have a dc voltage on TS-16 of around 26-30 VDC. So your reading is correct. TS-13 is rectified by D15 turning it to DC. It is then filtered by C2 and the DC voltage is sent out TS-16. The DC voltage is the average voltage of the ripple voltage and will vary with the board loading. In fact, even the the old tdm boards used a diode on TS-13 to produce DC so it's logical to assume Brunswick maintained this for all its boards.

Let us know if you need further help with this.

[Draper]

In response to Wookie8662, The 24vdc is coming from my BT which is the two leads that integrate into #16 and #18. Which is why I was confused as far as everything else is 26-28vac.
In response to exMech, We don't worry too much about time delay as I have it pretty short set on the BT.
Our patrons are mostly drunk revelers who just want to chuck balls down lanes. I'm just trying to hold it all together with an owner complaining about costs.

So I guess this goes back to configuring a relay setup using the two BT leads.

[Draper]

Here are the TDMs we are using.

[Wookie8662]

I keep forgetting about the newer electronic delay units.
Im still thinking everyone has the old style units (non-circuit board).