Deck knocking pins over on new racks (Need help ASAP)

[BryceJ]

I am still very new to working on a2s first off.

We started having this issue on tuesday where when the pinsetter goes to spot a new set of pins, a few of them fall over. I have replaced multiple spotting fingers on pins 1-2-4-5-8. I think the issue is the deck cable. I found this video on facebook of someone trying to explain how to tell if the cable needs to be adjusted. I want to make sure that it is right. Here is a video of what is happening and a picture of the Geneva plate and the pully.unnamed1.jpg?

[Mr. Blister]

Whenever you encounter a problem with pins consistently/unanimously falling over, it is wise to sit on top of the pinsetter & observe just how the flow of interaction looks between the pins & the buckets they are in on the Moving Deck (MD) as they are being set upon the pin deck. What you're looking for is whether the Moving Deck is shifting too far back, or not back far enough, when the entire deck bottoms out & is proceeding to come up toward the turret. The placing of 10 pins on the lane effectively is supposed to occur at about 295 degrees (so a moment past the 270-degree mark). This is the point in the pinsetter cycle where the Moving Deck is going to be at its rearmost position. This is adjustable by means of the Moving Deck cable, at its turnbuckle. This adjustment can be found in the back of the A-2 Service Manual which every center should have (I've never been in one that doesn't).

If you watch and the inside front of the deck buckets are grazing the pins as the deck is beginning to raise after setting 10 new pins and causing the pins to wobble & fall, you have a case where the deck cable is adjusted too short. The Moving Deck is being urged too far back in conjunction with the timing afforded by the 2:1 shaft for the deck to come up and down.

If the opposite is happening, as in you observe the inside back of the deck buckets staying in contact with the bellies of the pins longer than they should, this means your deck cable is too long. This condition could result in pins falling over, but also, if the MD cable is considerably far out of adjustment (it being too long), the pins will have a hard time leaving the deck at 295 degrees & become hung up on the deck rollers as the deck comes up. Then they get basically pinched between the Moving Deck & Stationary Deck and you have yourself a Moving Deck Jam (MDJ for short) and your pinsetter will 'black out'.

You went a good deal out of your way replacing all those spotting fingers, and as I'm sure you're now aware, they aren't the most fun thing to have to work with on these machines. At least now you've got your practice in. though.

Spotting fingers are what you should check (and secure or replace) when you observe that only one pin out of the 10 of them is falling over when placed. I've had them come loose or even snap off in the past.

Let us know what happens.

[nighthawk]

Cable. Spotting fingers. Deck rollers missing OR swelled up. Skirts not trimmed properly. Deck not level. Yes...watching a machine can really help figure things out.

[Mr. Blister]

I was going to bring up the possibility of the deck not being level or the deck height being off, but wanted to hear back on this probability first.

I did forget to mention blown deck rollers though.

[BryceJ]

It ended up being our control cable, we had to order more since we didn’t have any extra to replace it in the spring tube

[BryceJ]

I found a replacement cable for our spring tube. I do not know how to install it though. I know that their is a pin on the pulley inside the machine that I need to remove to take off the old cable, I don't know if I start at the pulley inside and work my way out or start by taking the tube off and work my way in. I personally think working from in to out would work better but I don't want to mess it up any more than it is.

[BryceJ]

I got the new jam tube and cable installed, now the pinsetter turns off due to the pin in the jam tube being pulled too far down. It no longer hold the sensor back. The new cable is measured at 41.5". I think its the Geneva Pulley. I need to make some adjustment somewhere but I do not know how. If told how to step by step, I could get it to work. I also need it up tonight so any help would be great.

[Mr. Blister]

There is a unique tool that Brunswick makes specifically for the purpose of taking apart & putting together the Deck Jam Tube so that components (such as the MD control cable) can be replaced. Below is a picture of it. Search your back aisle for it. If you can't find it even after some digging, you need to tell/leave a note for your head mechanic to order one for you guys because this is one of many things every back end of a bowling center should have. The Deck Jam Spring tube is taken out/replaced in the machine as one whole assembly with the cable attached inside it already. It's commonplace also for you to have a "tube & cable" assembly ready in your back aisle in case something like this happens, & you can simply replace the trouble 'tube & cable' assembly and rebuild the bad one you take out at a later time (it's about preventing extra downtime while at the same time easing the effort on the mechanic who encounters the problem & has to make the replacement).

The part number(s) for the Deck Jam Tube Spring Compressor is:

Brunswick --- 12-700110-000
Quality Bowling --- 38-1079

???

Your mechanical inclination is correct in thinking to work from the inside out (from the pin in the pulley to the back of the machine where the tube is).

As for how you go about replacing the tube & cable assembly:

1. Turn on the pinsetter & trigger it by pulling on the cycle solenoid plunger (located at the bottom of & inside of the cycle solenoid on the gearbox, above the linkages) & allow the pinsetter to run to 270 degrees. Shut off the machine at the electrical box breaker & unplug the drop cord. Advance the gear box a bit further (to roughly 295 degrees) via the Motor-to Gearbox belt or the Motor-to-elevator belt (Your choice. Because of the difference in pulley ratios, you can advance the machine faster with the Motor-to-Elevator belt). You want to get the Moving deck to its rearmost position

2. Jump down to the 7-pin side of the deck where the deck cables are located. the outside cable of the two you'll see typically has a spring around it. If it does, simply unhook it from the bottom by pulling the bottom of the spring toward the ground & let it dangle around the cable.

3. Pull the MD cable toward yourself, off of the cable idler pulley that is on the deck post, & let it slack out to the side of the machine. You now will have the constraint removed from the cable that is attached to the Jam Tube.

4. Using a set of pliers (ideally needle-nose), remove the "x" washer & pin in the pulley to which the control cable attaches.

5. Now, go to the back of the machine and remove the Jam Tube. For this you will want to have with you (because age, a.k.a serial numbers and modifications, vary on these machines) two 1/2" combo wrenches, two 9/16" combo wrenches, a 1/2" socket, a 9/16" socket, and a ratchet.
From here you reverse the above steps with your new 'tube & cable' assembly.

Note: There is a curved braket on the big round bar (frame cross-member) that the control cable rides and has to be taught against. It's not a bad idea to put some motor oil (5W or 10W) or Gearbox oil (80W or 90W) across the whole control cable before installing the 'tube & cable'. If the control cable is off to the side of this curved bracket, The MD will not shift far enough back at 295 degrees and you'll experience 'black outs' and/or falling pin problems like you had to begin with. I don't want you to not realize this small but important factor & wind up wondering why you can't get the MD cable adjustment correct when the problem is not the lenghth of the MD cable should this issue arise.
Double-check to make sure the control cable for the new tube you installed is placed under this bracket (by now it's likely that this bracket has a notch worn into it from having the old cable against it for so many years) before you're done with the job.
Try to be patient with making sure that the sections of the MD cable are put back into their proper positions on the pulleys. It can be maddening (like you need a third arm to keep all of them in place).

P.S- What is your situation currently with your ball return problem on lane # 4? Is it resolved now? You didn't post anything for us about it in a while.?

[Mr. Blister]

I got the new jam tube and cable installed, now the pinsetter turns off due to the pin in the jam tube being pulled too far down. It no longer hold the sensor back. The new cable is measured at 41.5". I think its the Geneva Pulley. I need to make some adjustment somewhere but I do not know how. If told how to step by step, I could get it to work. I also need it up tonight so any help would be great.

It may not necessarily be the Geneva pulley or the plate (the picture you put up). There are other probabilities and now you are having complications that you didn't have initially.

• Do the springs inside the tube (there are always 2 springs in these things, one is placed inside another) you just put in look rather visibly compressed compared to the pinsetter next to it, and is there a visible gap between the pin in the Jam Tube and the top of its slot when the machine is at 0?
• These spring tubes are supposed to be packed with grease. If the inside of the tube and the pin slot is dry, the pin that's in the tube has an increased likelihood of getting caught in the slot such that the pin isn't forced all the way to the top of the tube because the slot and/or pin is worn sharp.
• The pin that's inside the Deck Jam Tube could have been put in backward & you don't know it. It's got a large, convex head that is supposed to face (and therefore contact & close) the Deck Jam switch. It's an easy error to have if whoever put the Jam Tube together didn't know any better.

?

[BryceJ]

As of right now, the lane 4 situation is minor. We finally got everything done with lane 8. It is just adjusting cables due to the tension being so high. The previous owners tightened the cables instead of replacing parts to make it work, we are adjusting them slowly and little by little to get the tension right so that we can hopefully fix more issues instead of cause more. Now our board rectifier went out on 3. When we had someone redo our electrical on lane 4, they also did lane 3 to make sure that they matched. The only issue is that they switched us from selenium rectifiers to board rectifiers on only those two lanes. We don't have any backups for those rectifiers and it keeps blowing fuses if we try new ones. We have only tried 1 new one to avoid wasting them. I am currently trying to solve that issue. I can however confidently say that it is a rectifier issue since it is receiving its 115v AC however it isn't converting is to 90v dc. Thats when we discovered the red indicator light wasn't on and the fuse was blown.

[Danimal]

Idk if this is the recruiter your talking about but I have a picture of what wire goes where that might help you out if this is the right one

[Danimal]

Here's a pic of the original one as well

[Headpin]

Idk if this is the recruiter your talking about but I have a picture of what wire goes where that might help you out if this is the right one

Bridge rectifier. From my understanding, it converts the input voltage from AC to DC and halves its value by stopping the negative wave length.

Best to seek electrical advice from someone qualified rather, than ask for advice from the web.

[BryceJ]

So I ended up having it wrong, It isn't even a rectifier, it is a magnetic clutch voltage regulator. Does the same job, it's just a little circuit board with a couple of capacitors, a transistor, and a fuse. The fuse however blew and new ones continue to blow. We have tried 2 new ones in total, we are ordering a new one tomorrow and we will compare the one currently on three to the new one and check for a blown capacitor or transistor.

https://brunswickbowling.com/bowling...tage-regulator

[jim_long]

So I ended up having it wrong, It isn't even a rectifier, it is a magnetic clutch voltage regulator. Does the same job, it's just a little circuit board with a couple of capacitors, a transistor, and a fuse. The fuse however blew and new ones continue to blow. We have tried 2 new ones in total, we are ordering a new one tomorrow and we will compare the one currently on three to the new one and check for a blown capacitor or transistor.

https://brunswickbowling.com/bowling...tage-regulator

Screw that junk, put a 50amp full bridge rectifier and a cap across the contacts with a new cross conveyor switch and it will last 50 years.