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Double loading of pins into pin chutes

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  • Double loading of pins into pin chutes

    it doesn't happen all of the time but is becoming more fequent. The first set of pins will load normally and then for no apperant reason it loads another set of pins on top of the first set. Jams everything up and getting the second 5 pin out can be quite trying at best. It's a work all weekend, any ideas?

  • #2
    There are a bunch of possibilities that can cause that issue.
    1. Pin release (5 pin) probe missing a blocking finger;
    2. Blocking finger getting pushed out of the way;
    3. Long link not latching after the first set is released;
    4. Broken or missing hardware;
    5. Loose indexing cam;
    6. A bind in the 180 linkage.
    Study and remember the sequences that are supposed to be taking place.
    1. pin drops into the turret, which strikes the indexing lever.
    2. indexing lever rotates a bell crank which pulls the latch on the indexing roller.
    3 the indexing roller releases the indexing cam, which allows the turret to rotate to the next position.
    4. the sequence continues until 9 pins are loaded into the turret.
    5. when the 5 pin drops into the chute, the lever at the bottom of the chute will either allow the pin to drop into the turret, which releases the spoons allowing the first 9 pins to drop into the turret; or it will stop the pin if the deck is already full.
    6. the 5 pin chute lever is controlled by the 5 pin probe.
    7. the blocking fingers control the movement of the 5 pin probe.
    There's a little more to that than what I've mentioned; however, it should give you a starting point of observing what is or is not happening.

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    • #3
      To add to Tom's post, if you see the long link move backward during five pin indexing and it doesn't get locked back, then it's often the plain oilite at the rear of the long link that's broken or missing.
      Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
      Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
      Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
      Kegel C.A.T.S

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      • #4
        Thanks for the help

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        • #5
          Or the long link getting released when deck picks up pins. Check latch for being too close to deck shaft.
          I'm going fishing and camping!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyoldpainter View Post
            Jams everything up and getting the second 5 pin out can be quite trying at best.
            wyoldpainter ; sounds as if you do not realize that you can turn the gearbox in reverse to lower the deck ,which will make it much easier to remove the pins in the deckchutes.
            There is light at the end of the tunnel - just be sure it is not a train.

            Comment


            • #7
              It sounds to me that the cause of your problem could be the full deck blocking finger (RH) is out of adjustment or missing a spring. There is a lever assy. T65A page 117 parts book. On that lever, is a spring T64A. Check if it is missing or broken. This can cause the blocking finger to move freely, allowing a double loading of pins in the deck.

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              • #8
                Ewen, no i did not know that could be done, how do you do that? any hints are helpful.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyoldpainter View Post
                  ..... how do you do that? any hints are helpful.
                  With the pinsetter at zero, TAG OUT LOCK OUT. Trip the GB clutch, grab the upper part of the motor to gearbox belt and rotate in its opposite direction. There should be a label on the top of the gearbox near the clutch end. The arrow on the label will show you the direction to rotate the belt. Also, with the other free hand, hold the deck hook up. This will allow the deck to lower on the link instead of the hook; allowing you to lower the deck as far down as you want.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kanga View Post
                    To add to Tom's post, if you see the long link move backward during five pin indexing and it doesn't get locked back, then it's often the plain oilite at the rear of the long link that's broken or missing.
                    ...or the bearing at the front of the link may be missing or broken.
                    TSM & TSM Training Development
                    Main Event Entertainment
                    480-620-6758 for help or information

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SoCalTom View Post
                      With the pinsetter at zero, TAG OUT LOCK OUT. Trip the GB clutch, grab the upper part of the motor to gearbox belt and rotate in its opposite direction. There should be a label on the top of the gearbox near the clutch end. The arrow on the label will show you the direction to rotate the belt. Also, with the other free hand, hold the deck hook up. This will allow the deck to lower on the link instead of the hook; allowing you to lower the deck as far down as you want.
                      Also hold up the deck holding hook till it clears the pin.
                      I'm going fishing and camping!

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                      • #12
                        Or the roller at the end of long link could be worn.
                        I'm going fishing and camping!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Steve Stafford (JBEES) View Post
                          ...or the bearing at the front of the link may be missing or broken.
                          Indeed. I haven't (yet) had one fail in my career...yep I said it...I know.

                          To add to Tom's post, if you have the deck jam protection kit installed (grey vertical lever sitting next to the clutch lever), you'll need to push it backward before engaging the clutch.

                          a2stoplever.jpg

                          I've borrowed someone's picture to show the lever. Note that the spring is missing that connects through the hole of the lever that hooks to the clutch lever bearing pin.
                          Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                          Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                          Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                          Kegel C.A.T.S

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            wyoldpainter: couple of points: maybe a long shot on your problem, however, understand that when you lift the turret assembly for whatever reason, you are " resetting " the full deck signal , and when the turret fills with pins, it will load those pins on to the set that are already in the deck chutes. Having said that, you can try running your machine with only 19 pins to stop any double decking of pins until you find the problem. As for reversing the gearbox, several have their own methods. Since you seem to be a small center, you probably do not have a LOTO device. ( Lock out Tag out refers to a plastic box that you put your main power plug in ,after removing from electrical box. LOTO device is then padlocked with you having the key to unlock it. ) It is a safety measure to prevent someone from accidentally restoring power to pinsetter while you are working on it. Since this is an OSHA topic, I will just assume that in the future you will be purchasing a LOTO device ; ) For now, remember to turn off the pinsetter circuit breaker , and unplug the main power plug. If you fail to do so, when reversing gearbox, the power will be restored to pinsetter, and you will be injured. NEVER perform repairs on a pinsetter by just turning off the masking unit switch ,or the rear mechanics switch. A bank 8 short ( topic for another discussion) could cause your pinsetter to turn on and cause injury. Be very careful of turning gearbox in reverse by using the short motor belt. Very easy to wind your hand through the pulley. Again, many have their own way, and it would probably be best for you to use the the outside portion of the large jackshaft pulley to reverse the gearbox. There should be a stamped arrow on the gearbox pointing in the direction to rotate gearbox to reverse. If not, rotate it toward the 7 pin side of the pinsetter. Remember if the deck holding hook is not held up ( by whatever means ) you will be cranking a long time as the hook will catch the post and not let deck descend. If that happens, DO NOT EVER ,lift the deck holding hook while it is supporting the weight of the deck. Lastly, do not be afraid to ask for help on this site. more than enough techs ready to help at any given time.
                            There is light at the end of the tunnel - just be sure it is not a train.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              try this... machine at 0 and power off, pull the long link back and see if it locks. if it does, power up machine and cycle it on standing pins and see if the roller on the deck shaft releases it. If it does, there's your problem. if it doesn't, index turret around (at 0) and see if the projection on the turret cam pushes the link back to lock. if it doesn't, run machine to 270 setting new pins, turn power off. remove bottom turret guard, index turret by hand and visually inspect the way projection on indexing cam contacts the roller on the long link. If run into issues where you may simply have to move the roller ontop of the link or vise versa. If this looks ok, then remove roller and see if small oil lite is still in end of long link. if it is there, be sure all springs are in place. there is a small spring at the rear of long link going from link to rear of turret frame. also, check condition of block on link that contacts the blocking finger roller, this may have broken off.

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