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Triggering bell crank mounting stud broken, suitable replacement/repair?

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  • Triggering bell crank mounting stud broken, suitable replacement/repair?

    Hello everyone on bowl-tech,

    I have a machine which has several issues. I think I have a good start as to what is causing the problem but am in need of some expert advice. The machine is going into hanging 180's quite often and sweeping off spares and setting pins. I think the problem lies in the clutch/triggering as a combination. There is something going on with the worm shaft into the gearbox causing the clutch adjustment to be wonky. During the machines cycle, you can see the worm shaft with a lateral movement of around 1/8 to 1/4 inch into and out of the gearbox. I don't think that is the sole reason for the machine acting wonky. The stud that the triggering bell crank mounts on was either broken or replaced years ago, before I came to this center. Was put in it's place was a 3/4 inch sized bolt long enough to tighten into the gearbox housing. This however has become somewhat stripped as well and will not stay tightened. It allows the whole triggering to become very sloppy and lopsided which I believe to be causing the bell crank to most likely bind causing the hanging 180's.

    I have checked the 180 link adjustment and it was fudged up pretty good, was a very small gap so I set it to the books suggested 1/4 inch spacing. I also checked the dashpot adjustment and that was a little off as well. Still getting an abnormal amount of calls on this lane though.

    Any help would be extremely appreciated.

    Regards,
    Daniel McNally

  • #2
    I know Zot makes a repair kit for the bellcrank for "A" machines, you might might wanna replace that wormshaft also,good luck

    Comment


    • #3
      Improper shimming of the worm shaft retainer will allow the movement of the shaft you're seeing. I'm thinking you may have a rubber gasket installed when you should only have paper gasket shims.

      What is the serial number of the gearbox of the machine in question?

      Your issue with the broken gearbox stud and bolt was discussed recently...click this link.
      Last edited by Kanga (James); 02-12-2012, 05:40 AM.
      Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
      Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
      Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
      Kegel C.A.T.S

      Comment


      • #4
        here is a link that discusses the proper shimming of the worm shaft retainer by gear box serial number

        http://www.bowltech.com/forums/showt...966#post450966


        This situation with your stud problem is a little different because of the fact that the aluminum was tapped for a 1/2" bolt. If you still see the 1/4" broken bolt inside the hole on the gearbox housing, then you might have a chance of repairing it as described in the thread provided by Kanga.
        Nick

        Comment


        • #5
          Hopefully it is shimming issue. However, (worst case scenario) it could be the 4:1 worm wheel. A clue is, does the deck shake or seem jerky when it raises up?

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you all for the replies! Very helpful!!! But as Mechanik said, the stud hole in the gearbox was tapped for a 1/2" sized bolt. If the 1/4" bolt is not still in the hole, which I am somewhat doubtful, what would be my gameplan on getting this fixed? Has anyone dealt with the hole being enlarged? I'm thinking I should maybe just swap the whole gearbox and forget the issue in the first place since it is basically the only machine with this problem.

            Let me know what you guys think, I will be going into work tomorrow and will see what I can find.

            Dan

            *Edit* - Kanga, I do not know the serial number of the gearbox in question off hand, but I do know the machines were installed in 1956 I believe.

            Comment


            • #7
              Was able to look up the ZOT product from that other thread. Looks like that is gonna do the trick if I can't somehow fix the hole in the gearbox that is already there. Thanks for all the help and I will let you know how it turns out.

              Regards,
              Dan

              Comment


              • #8
                The serial number of the pinsetter should be printed on a plate on the pulley block of the cross conveyor, or on a plate near the jackshaft of the elevator. Anther place to find it is stamped on the side of the gearbox housing. If all else fails, an estimated Serial number can be provided to you based on the date you have provided......there is a list of serial numbers by date kicking around on here that someone can post for you if you end up needing it.


                http://www.bowltech.com/forums/showt...Bellcrank-bolt

                This is the link kanga provided which tealls how you can go about repairing the problem. You have to take a look inside the hole on the gearbox housing....if the person who did the repair ended up drilling into the aluminum to tap the threads for the bolt, and in the process drilled out the 1/4" threads, you might have a problem. If you see that the 1/4" bolt is broken and still in place inside that hole, you have a shot at removing the bolt as shown in the thread and putting the proper hardware back into use. You might have an issue with play thi the shaft if the hole has worn a bit. If its just a bit of play, Maybe some red permatex will help with that.

                If the shaft has a lot of play, maybe rather than switching the entire gearbox because of it, maybe jb weld a shaft into place and thread the opening on the end of the shaft so that you can fasten the hardware this way. Im not to big on such fixes, but if you are considering chucking that GB housing anyways, you can give this a shot and if it works, it could be a permanent fix.
                Nick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mechanick View Post
                  ......maybe jb weld a shaft into place and thread the opening on the end of the shaft so that you can fasten the hardware this way.
                  One thing about using JB Weld is that once it has cured (24 to 36 hours), it can be drilled and tapped; and will hold bolts as secure as if you had drilled and tapped steel or aluminum. And, as I have mentioned in another thread, it will probably outlast the gearbox.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello guys,

                    Figured I would post a little update. I looked at the serial numbers on the machine in question. The gearbox has a serial number of 14590 and the machine has a serial number of 14580. I also noticed that the seal which should be paper appears to be quite a thick piece of rubber. I think you guys are onto something with the wrong seal being there.

                    Dan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PlaydiumJumper View Post
                      Hello guys,

                      Figured I would post a little update. I looked at the serial numbers on the machine in question. The gearbox has a serial number of 14590 and the machine has a serial number of 14580. I also noticed that the seal which should be paper appears to be quite a thick piece of rubber. I think you guys are onto something with the wrong seal being there.

                      Dan
                      The rubber gasket is definantly why you are seeing backlash in the worm shaft.

                      GB with SN 8131 to 21883
                      - use paper shims until shims are flush with bearing surface
                      Nick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When dealing with this kind of issue...the only serial number that means anything is the one stamped on the side of the gear box. Gear boxes can be changed from machine to machine and the end result would be someone trying to use the wrong product between the retainer and the gear box housing.

                        With that being said...there is an exception to that. Brunswick rebuilt pinsetters at one time and "removed" the serial numbers from the gear boxes. They gave the pinsetters new serial numbers (found on the cross conveyor drive housing) which numbered in the 200XXX. With these machines, you would need to measure the amount the bearing protrudes out of the back of the gear box to determine what product to use. 1/8" or so, rubber gasket. .010 or so, paper shims (as needed) and if it is about flush...permatex.

                        Hope that helps...
                        TSM & TSM Training Development
                        Main Event Entertainment
                        480-620-6758 for help or information

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, just installed the ZOT bellcrank stud repair kit. We will see how it works and whether or not it rectifies the problem. I will say it was a very well put together kit! Even came with a drill bit and tap which I was unaware of. I waited to install it because I needed to bring my taps from home, only to find out it came with everything! Anyways I will keep you guys updated as to whether or not this fixes my hanging 180, double cycle problem.

                          Thanks to all of you!

                          Dan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well Ladies and Gentlemen... just had a call on this lane for a hanging 180. I just don't get it. What on earth could be causing this? I am desperate. I thought for sure that broken bell crank stud was the problem behind all my issues... but alas... it appears not to be.

                            Does anybody have any other tips or ideas as to things I could look for?

                            Here is what I have done so far:

                            Replaced worm shaft gasket(was wrong size)
                            Full clutch adjustment
                            Dashpot adjusment
                            180 Link adjustment
                            Lubed entire triggering
                            Installed ZOT bell crank stud repair kit

                            Please and thank you for any more ideas.

                            Dan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              False 180's are caused because the clutch latch does not get pulled down when approaching 0 degrees. This leaves the clutch release lever out of the slot near the bottom of the clutch actuator links. Becasue of this, the clutch release lever is forced to be held down at 180 degrees during a first ball standing pins cycle. To test this theory...pull the starter bellcrank back and hold it there as the machine cycles toward 0 degrees. Now two things could happen at this point. Either the machine will continue on right away to 180 degrees and stop or the clutch will stay disengaged until the turret fills and drops pins into the deck and then cycle to 180 degrees and stop. Either way...you get a false 180. (You are calling it a hanging 180) This can be caused by mechanical issues preventing the clutch latch from getting under the roller at the end of the clutch reset lever or it could be an electrical issue causing the cycle solenoid to pull the clutch latch out from under the roller as the gear box is approaching 0 degrees. As we can not see the machine...you will need to first determine which scenario is causing the problem. It may mean that you need to sit on the machine waiting...unfortunately this can mean that you might fall asleep doing this. I know...I have done it. No fun but it might be the only way you find the issue. You could put a camera on the latch and watch it...if you have one.

                              With all that being said...try this first. Cycle the machine to just after 270 degrees and stop when the clutch reset lever is at its highest point. Turn the clutch by hand if you need to to get to that point. Now, take the clutch reset lever and move it up and down with your hand. See if there is any bind at all in the up and down movement of the reset lever. If there is...look for a bind in the roller on the actuator links or in the pivot points of the shaft of the reset lever. Any of these binds could cause what you are seeing.

                              I hope this helps...
                              TSM & TSM Training Development
                              Main Event Entertainment
                              480-620-6758 for help or information

                              Comment

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