Weird Electrical Issue

[A_Ike]

Lane 32 started a new thing today:

Bowler throws a ball, and Start Relay and Contactor shut off. Easily restarts by flipping Circuit Breaker off/on, or by manually closing Start Relay or Contactor. I tried holding in Contactor a few throws, but setter still died. So I held Start Relay closed, setter stays on. So when league started, I did a no-no and taped Start Relay down (I'm still sitting on it). Pinsetter is running fine, except sometimes the 1st/2nd Ball Lights will either stay on, or stay off during a cycle.(If it stays off, Time Delay Relay will not close)

208 volt, Converted A2, Deltrol Contactor, old style Start Relay.

Please note: The Deck Jam Switch does not work, nor does the rear on/off switch. However, this pinsetter runs normal otherwise. Looking for any ideas on what may be the issue. Thanks much in advance.

[Kat]

Are you saying the Deck Jam switch and Rear switch do not blackout pinsetter while you have MSR taped?

If so, it won't.

[A_Ike]

No, they do not black the machine out at all. Even when un taped. All the wires I can trace match the wiring diagram in the book too. It's really been bugging me.

[bowlamech]

I d change the motor start relay souns like a bad one.one and two ball light not on a good sign

[wepauls]

I would start off get your jam switches working you will thank your self latter

As for your other issues a bad rear switch is the place to start

[ a low voltage short will course your dilemma ]

[coachlon]

Soon as league finishes, get the machine to stop as you say.
Click or copy this link: http://www.bowltech.com/forums/showt...Ross-McDonough Black Out Checklist
Make a copy. Get your volt meter and in a few minutes you should find the culprit.
And as Wepauls said get that deck jam switch back in service.

[A_Ike]

Replaced Motor Start Relay (boss wants new style anyway), replaced Motor Contactor (already had Deltrol style), and replaced deck jam switch (had left-overs because a lot of them were bad). Motor Contactor still opens when pit cushion gets hit.

Took some readings:

TS2-6 & TS2-9 25.9vac
TS2-5 & TS2-9 25.6vac
TS2-3 & TS2-9 24.6vac
TS2-2 & TS2-9 23.7vac

Wiring looks good, everything looks to be in the right place. I will keep searching, this is just an update.

[obdll]

check for bad fuse holder or lose wire in box tap on box and see if it flickers also check wiring going down to subway

[SoCalTom]

With what everyone has mentioned, there is one thing to remember. All of the safety switches are wired in series. This means that if any one of the switches is open (off position), the pinsetter should not run.

A_Ike, your voltages appear to be normal; however, there is a problem with your safety switches. Series wired switches are wired from mechanic's switch to deck jam microswitch to turret jam microswitch to masking unit switch to manager's switch. Turn the power off to the pinsetter; and with an Ohm meter, check each switch to determine which one is at fault.

Forcing the MSR closed will definitely cause problems down the road. If you have a deck jam, the machine won't be able to turn itself off; which will cause something to break that you don't want to replace. The same for a turret jam. You'll find yourself replacing a turret frame or a deck (or both, worst case) in no time.

[RipOwens]

If it happens when the rake drops make sure that there isnt any wiring wire tied to the rake shafts or going over the rabbit ears that could be pulling on the wires or cutting into them

[A_Ike]

Obdll called it. I went to change the 3.2 amp fustat, just for the heck of it. Still wouldn't work with new fuse. Had a 3 amp breaker, so I put that in and it fired right up. Thanks for all the tips with that issue everyone.

I still don't get why it runs with the jam switches open... I guess ill need to dig deep for this one.