Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help! "A" Electrical Issue

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help! "A" Electrical Issue

    Ok, hopefully someone can tell me what im doing wrong here. I have SOME experience with the electrical boxes on the machines but not a lot. By "some," I mean that I know what the componets are inside the boxes and how to change them out. However, Im not used to the A electrical boxes that do not have the time delay modules. Not sure if that makes a difference in the issue im having now or not. I have a 14 lane center, the last 8 were installed in 1956(electrical boxes on front of machine) and the first 6 were installed in 1962(boxes on rear like todays A2's). Anways, the center has been closed for 2 years and is in the process of being opened back up. On lane 6, the contactor coil is only gettin 108v and will not engage itself. I can manually engage it, and it will stay engaged. All on/off's turn the machine off but wont turn on unless i engage contactor myself. I thought maybe, at first, the contactor was bad. So I replaced it with a new, out of the box, contactor and got the same result. So then I thought maybe the transformer. Well, that wasnt it either as I also replaced that. Not sure what else to try. I wish i knew more about the electrical side of the machines, but I dont. I know that #5 on the coil is hooked to TS1-G and #6 connects to the motor start relay and those are the only two wires connected to the coil.
    Thanks everyone, in advance, for your time!

  • #2
    Is there a thermal overload tied into the motor contactor coil circuit?
    ME&My68

    There's no such thing as idiot proof, it just makes a better idiot!

    Comment


    • #3
      What is the voltage coming into the machine at the plug?
      Sometimes we have to do stuff to get by....Just go back and do it right when the "by" has passed!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by smurtland View Post
        What is the voltage coming into the machine at the plug?
        Voltage coming into the machine from the plug is 245. And for the other question about the coil, I am not sure. I wont be in front of the machine again until Saturday or Sunday. Just have been racking my brain for the past few days and thought i would seek some help

        Comment


        • #5
          I am about 95% sure there is not thermal overload tied into it. But like i said, Im not infront of the machine right now so im not sure

          Comment


          • #6
            Please don't take this wrong...but changing parts in the electrical box because it didn't work is not the answer. The best thing you can do is to track down the voltage and determine why it isn't functioning...then make a sound decision on what to change. You are not at fault here...just the norm to change things. Let's try to put a stop to that...and save some money in the process.

            Again, this has been the norm and I would love to change that. Getting folks to dig out a meter and make some measurements will lead to more knowledge and less expenses.

            You already have made some measurements by knowing the voltage at the coil of the motor contactor. Excellent step. Is that voltage what that coil needs as there are different coils in the field? If you would like...start with a picture of the box and post here. Then some normal readings so we can track down some of the circuits that must be completed. Read the following points and post results. (Be sure all switches are on when making these measurements)

            Main circuit breaker input
            TS1-E to TS1-H
            TS1-E to TS1-F
            TS1-F to TS1-G
            TS1-G to TS1-H
            TS2-6 to TS2-9
            TS2-5 to TS2-9
            TS2-3 to TS2-9
            TS2-2 to TS2-9

            If you have older machines still wired as if they are A's...then switch TS2-6 and TS2-9 in each of the readings above.

            Let us know what you find. Knowing what is printed on the coil of the motor contactor would be helpful. Also...what is the part number of the transformer you intalled? There are two different transformers that were sold over the years although only one is currently available today.

            Hope this helps...
            TSM & TSM Training Development
            Main Event Entertainment
            480-620-6758 for help or information

            Comment


            • #7
              @ Steve- Thanks for the information! I will not be at the center until Sunday, possibly Saturday at the earliest. I will repost after I take readings and get coil & transformer info. Thanks!

              Comment


              • #8
                If you like...feel free to give me a call and I can try to help you on the phone.
                TSM & TSM Training Development
                Main Event Entertainment
                480-620-6758 for help or information

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, I have not been able to spend whole lot of time on this machine as I've been busy working on scoring the last few days. The coil calls for 120v and the transformer part number is 12-750238-000.

                  Main Plug - 243

                  Switches on, machine off- Machine on-
                  E-H: 243 243
                  E-F: 243 127
                  F-G: 0 0
                  G-H: 0 126
                  6-9: 0 27
                  5-9: 0 27
                  3-9: 0 27
                  2-9: 0 27

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is something else you may want to check.
                    Locate where your deck lamp is drawing its power from. There are times whereas the deck lamp is powered at the coil of the newer motor contactors. If your deck lamp is wired to this coil (one deck lamp lead may be on TS1-G, and the other at the contactor), unplug the deck lamp just to see if the contactor works better. If it works, then the deck lamp is either wired incorrectly or may have a bad ballast that is draining power away from the coil.
                    "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                    Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dsmckin4271 View Post
                      OK, I have not been able to spend whole lot of time on this machine as I've been busy working on scoring the last few days. The coil calls for 120v and the transformer part number is 12-750238-000.

                      Main Plug - 243

                      Switches on, machine off- Machine on-
                      E-H: 243 243
                      E-F: 243 127
                      F-G: 0 0
                      G-H: 0 126
                      6-9: 0 27
                      5-9: 0 27
                      3-9: 0 27
                      2-9: 0 27
                      Something does not appear to be wired correctly to the transformer. You should see 126 or 127 from E to F and from G to H regardless if the machine is on or not. When it is off...you are not developing the low voltage that is needed to pull in the motor start relay. Look at the transformer wires that are coming out of the left hand side of the transformer and trace them to their connections.

                      H1
                      H2
                      H3
                      H4
                      ...and if you have H5 wired in...see where that goes also.

                      Post back with the results.

                      Bottom line, there appears to be an open between H1 and H2 (TS1-E and TS1-F) which is resolved when you push on the contactor. This is what we will be looking for.
                      TSM & TSM Training Development
                      Main Event Entertainment
                      480-620-6758 for help or information

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Turns out the machine wont run at all with the deck light unplugged. If machine is on and then unplug, machine shuts off.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe those are wired backwards then.... H1 - TS1H, H2 - TS1G, H3 - TS1F, H4 - TS1E, & H5 is not conneted

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dsmckin4271 View Post
                            Turns out the machine wont run at all with the deck light unplugged. If machine is on and then unplug, machine shuts off.
                            I would re-compare the contactor wiring with another "Working" machine with the same contactor and wire accordingly. Then before powering up, recheck the voltages where Steve suggested. Pay attention especially the H-5 wire which is normally used in the 208vac Model A with the 3-pole contactor. Since you said you have installed a new contactor, remove the H-5 (if it is connected) and tape it. Let's go from there.
                            "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                            Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lonnie_Mitchell View Post
                              I would re-compare the contactor wiring with another "Working" machine with the same contactor and wire accordingly. Then before powering up, recheck the voltages where Steve suggested. Pay attention especially the H-5 wire which is normally used in the 208vac Model A with the 3-pole contactor. Since you said you have installed a new contactor, remove the H-5 (if it is connected) and tape it. Let's go from there.
                              The last 8 mahines are still wire with the 3 pole contactor, the first 6 are not. The machine i am working on right now, i replaced guardian conactor with a deltrol. I compared it with other machines and all seem to be the same. I moved the light bar wire down to bottom right on new contactor. Im stumped....

                              Comment

                              Topic Starter RibbonScript

                              Collapse

                              Adsense Classic 2

                              Collapse
                              widgetinstance 666 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                               

                              Well this is a first.

                              We all from time to time have one of those “wow I’ve never seen THAT before” moments. Well today was one of those for me when my night tech texts me to say lane 16 is out...
                               

                              Ball return wheel guide roller removal.

                              Hey guys, i could just use a bit of advice trying to get this part out, first time I've had to do one of these. I got it to move a few turns but its come to a point where it has...
                               

                              Even old mechanics find something new.

                              All my years working on these things I never had this happen…… until last week. ...
                               

                              82-90XL Frontend Gearbox Parts - Rebuild Woes

                              We have 5 of the 088000365 replacement gear kits on the shelf, and I pulled two gearboxes off machines earlier this week, so I thought I'd try my hand at rebuilding them and save...
                               

                              Prolane damage

                              Can this be repaired?
                               

                              LED Ball Lights

                              Made an LED conversion for A2's and Frameworx masks. It can also be modded for the Harmony masks to accept 2 x 5mm led's and/or a 12v supply. Once I'm happy with the performance/design...
                              Working...
                              X