Is It True?

[me_and_my_68]

I was told that BRC and/or AMF don't count ball return calls when figuring frames per stop. Is it true? Does anyone else not count calls (ie. certain ball returns, out of ranges etc.)? I once worked for a compny that classified machine stops versus customer inconveniences. Only the stops were counted. Anyone else do that? If so what do you consider a customer inconvenience and not a machine stop/malfunction?

[smurtland]

I had to count ball returns when I worked for AMF but that has been a few ago now. I have to believe that they still count them.

[SoCalTom]

I was told that BRC and/or AMF don't count ball return calls when figuring frames per stop. Is it true?

I used to work for AMF, and I can honestly say that it's not true.

Basically, anything that stops the game counts as a stop. This applies to ball calls, OORs, and (possibly) scoring corrections. AMF's minimum is 1,000 frames per stop; however, I have seen A-2 equipped centers with 2,000 FPS or better.

[Marty Murphy]

If I could get rid of some of my stupid calls - blackouts cause the scoring shut the machines off because the game is done is the main one I have in here - I would be well on my way to 2500 !! Since we use Kegels Tracker in here with the pagers, I see all the calls sent to the back. Calls called on the wrong lanes, respots with the wrong pins, open bowlers hitting the rakes because of the 10th frame recycling thru the scoring, half the stuff called is wrong...

Marty - Pro Bowl West

[dsmckin4271]

I spoke to a Brunswick rep a couple years back to ask about FPS and I was told that by their standards, anything that delays the ball being thrown down the lane, is a stop. Including OOR, BR and even deadwood. When i worked at AMF, we did not count deadwood, but definately counted ball return calls.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

I do work for AMF...and counting every call is mandatory. There is even an Operating Standard that spells it out.

I know first hand that there are centers that do not count every call...and they believe they are doing themselves a favor by doing so. Nothing could be further from the truth. If there is an issue...the higher-ups need...let me say that again...NEED...to know that there is a problem. I don't know how many centers I go to solve issues only to find out that no one knew about the issue as it was not "recorded". Either the GM or the FM wants the center to look like it is doing well but in reality, there are issues. Issues that can (and often does) effect whether bowlers will return. If the higher-ups know that there are issues, they can help the FM or GM by sending someone over to help resolve the issue...either by recommending parts, training, more help or all of the above. But if they do not know there is an issue until it is too late...then it's too late and not much can be done.

Whether you count calls or not...that is your choice. Ask yourself this though...by not counting certain calls...who are you kidding? You? Your boss? The bowlers? Bottom line, no one wins.

Hope that helps answer your question...no...it's not true.

[Stripperbolt]

BRC's standard is the same as AMF, and probably a lot of the centers. So, yeah, ball returns are counted as a stop, as well as pretty much anything that causes an inconvenience to a customer as far as scoring and pinsetters go. If a scorer causes a machine to "blackout", we record it. As Steve, and plenty of others, have stated many times through the years, you're only hurting yourself if you don't have an accurate picture of how the mechanical operation is doing, and an accurate frames per stop record is one tool to help in that assessment.

[MASTERMIKE]

I do work for AMF...and counting every call is mandatory. There is even an Operating Standard that spells it out.

I know first hand that there are centers that do not count every call...and they believe they are doing themselves a favor by doing so. Nothing could be further from the truth. If there is an issue...the higher-ups need...let me say that again...NEED...to know that there is a problem. I don't know how many centers I go to solve issues only to find out that no one knew about the issue as it was not "recorded". Either the GM or the FM wants the center to look like it is doing well but in reality, there are issues. Issues that can (and often does) effect whether bowlers will return. If the higher-ups know that there are issues, they can help the FM or GM by sending someone over to help resolve the issue...either by recommending parts, training, more help or all of the above. But if they do not know there is an issue until it is too late...then it's too late and not much can be done.

Whether you count calls or not...that is your choice. Ask yourself this though...by not counting certain calls...who are you kidding? You? Your boss? The bowlers? Bottom line, no one wins.

Hope that helps answer your question...no...it's not true.

Great post Steve........

[Tablejam]

If the ball does not come back, how can that not be counted as a stop as they can't bowl which means there is a stop in gameplay which means......IT'S A STOP!

[Mechanick]

I don't think many would argue that a ball return is not a stop

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

I had a center that did not count ball returns because they did not have preference systems (A's) and they felt that if they couldn't stop the call...they shouldn't count it.

I don't agree with that mentality...just that was what they told me.

[MASTERMIKE]

I agree Steve,

When i first started at the center im at now, None of the A preference systems were hooked, But tracking ball calls is how i decided i wanted to repair them quick

Mike

[SoCalTom]

..... and they felt that if they couldn't stop the call...they shouldn't count it.

I don't agree with that mentality either. If it isn't written down, it won't be fixed.

[Mike Wilson]

Amen

[wepauls]

I always Had my night staff mark all stops and [ potentl stops ]
you know the stops thy get before any calls can be made to the desk

A K A [ SPINNING BALLS , TURN PAN JAMS, BALLS AT THE Y , ]

Now desk may have 3 calls to report
my shop may have 15 calls for machines for me to look at and adjust or make repair