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Moving deck issue??? Cable issue???

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  • Moving deck issue??? Cable issue???

    Ok well I got one lane that has been a pain in my side for a while.

    Basically if I adjust the deck cable where the geneva rollers are straight across, the #1 and #5 pins will not release properly causing them to be moved by the spotting fingers.

    If I lengthen the cable to the point where the pins will shift while in the scissors, it will set those pins correctly as well as the others.

    I have already swapped out deck roller and spotting fingers to eliminate that as a possibility.

    I have also replaced all the deck cables. But may do them again.

    Just seems like the moving deck is not retracting enough.

    I need about 1/8"

    I'm open for suggestions.
    My father told me to never get old...I should have listened!

  • #2
    First of all, make sure the bottom of the (scissor) deck is of correct height off the floor. I like 15/16". Others may vary. If the deck is too close to the floor, then the cable cannot be adjusted correct.

    There are several ideas for the deck height adjustment and many will blindly adjust the lowering link / scotch yoke without checking to see if the deck is already too high. If too high, you may find the deck and scissor cables making contact with the cross member.
    At about 5 degrees past absolute "0" degrees, check the space between cables and the frames cross member just above the left deck lift arm. Adjust the lowering link / scotch yoke to achieve at lease 3/16 inch (+ or - 1/16 inch). Now, lower the deck to 270 degrees and check the level of the deck. Adjust as needed. Next, use the four jack-screws and adjust the frame evenly until the bottom of the scissor deck is 15/16 inches off the pin deck (floor). Secure the jack-screws.
    Your low deck restricted drop link, detector rod, deck holding hook will need fine tuning adjustments and the 2:1 eccentric (lowering hook) and rake sweep height, may also need adjustment.
    By following this adjustment, the deck will now be a little further away from the turret reducing the possibility of interference as well as indexing issues. Pins also fall into the buckets better and the 5-pin has a lessor chance of keeping the release latch down when indexing allowing a sure spider lock.
    Now adjust the moving deck cable as you would like and you will find better results.

    Good luck,
    Lonnie
    "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
    Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

    Comment


    • #3
      Phil...sounds like your issue might be that you have a mismatch between your moving deck scissor cam and the type of lowering device you have on your 2:1. Is that possible?
      TSM & TSM Training Development
      Main Event Entertainment
      480-620-6758 for help or information

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Steve,

        These are old model A's, and this GB has yet to be opened up. These are link type. One thing for certain is that the moving deck was replaced as some point. When I get back to Old Mountain, I'll take a look. The deck is set at 1" off the floor.

        It's just a wierd issue that I haven't really encountered.

        Also one other question...Would it be sensible to use a 4ft level to check the level of the deck? Figured it might make things go a little quicker.
        My father told me to never get old...I should have listened!

        Comment


        • #5
          If it shifts back far enough when the cable is loosened and at that point the deck shifts when they are in the scissors it could be possible the tab on the moving deck cam follower arm is worn or the hole for the pin that holds the cam follower bearing is worn. Just a thought....
          formerly dunsel
          ITS NOT HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ITS HOW MUCH YOU CARE!!!!!

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          • #6
            Phil,
            I don't think you would want to use a level on the deck. Your pin-deck in not supposed to be level, it should be sloped up from front to back, and like Lonnie said you want your 270 new pins deck height to be 15/16 all around.
            (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Phil, did you ever find the problem ?
              formerly dunsel
              ITS NOT HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ITS HOW MUCH YOU CARE!!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Rip...

                I releveled out the deck, and it got much better. Honestly I think it's a little too far off the floor. It's set at 1", but I think 7/8" will be the best height.

                Thank you for asking. One thing is for sure is that the gearbox needs a rebuild.
                My father told me to never get old...I should have listened!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phil_B View Post
                  Hi Rip...

                  I releveled out the deck, and it got much better. Honestly I think it's a little too far off the floor. It's set at 1", but I think 7/8" will be the best height.

                  Thank you for asking. One thing is for sure is that the gearbox needs a rebuild.

                  You said your gearbox needs rebuilding. Does the moving deck scissors cam "jump" when the machine is setting new pins. If it does you either have a bad key-way on your spur-gear or on the moving deck scissors cam itself. If this is the situation then when you change your gearbox the problem will be solved.

                  As far as pin-setting adjustments go I have my own preferred methods.

                  Deck cable adjustment: Cycle machine to just past 270 setting new pins. You want to stop it when the spotting fingers are even with the widest part of the belly of the pin. You may have to shut it off and crank the belt to get it at just the right position. Make sure you LOTO. At this point adjust the moving deck cable so the spotting fingers are as close to the pin without actually touching it. Now pay attention here because you may have to make a compromise with this adjustment. Cycle the machine back up to 0. Look at the position of the geneva rollers. The bottom of the roller should not be down further than the bottom of the slot in the geneva plate. If it is you will have to loosen the cable up a bit. Another note: Pay attention to what Lonnie said about the cables making contact with the cross member.

                  Deck height: Cycle the machine to 270 setting new pins. LOTO. Climb down into the machine. Check the pins. They should all be firmly sitting on the pin-deck. If not the deck is too high. Also check to see how much front to back movement you get with the pins trying to slide them forward and backward. This should be minimal. Be sure to check all 10 pins on both of these two items to make sure they all all even. If not you may have a level issue or a spotting finger may be bent or a deck roller may be bad.
                  (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Got one that will pick up a few pins after setting some on the deck. Found loose bolt 5 pin chute. Broken bolt on spotting finger. Broke geneva plate 7 side. Bent stabilizer 10 side. Loosened bearing caps centered deck. Tried to level best as I could. Going to make blocks for the 3 corners. Also found cracked web 7 side. They have installed a deck leveling cable to that corner. I can't believe it worked as well as it did with so much wrong. The pins that stay in the buckets are always in the back row. It still seems to have a catch which will not allow for complete movement of moving deck. Going to try and tighten repair cable to the 7 corner.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The repair cable was a home made fix. I have cracks in both corners just in front of the last rib. It is letting the back drag on its reward motion. Will try and get it welded or replaced. WHEEE.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        feel free to show us this homemade cable fix
                        Nick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          They drilled and taped a hole in the deck. Used L bracket, attached cable to back bolt on deck in 7 corner. Had threaded barrel through bracket with nut attached and tightened. It worked for awhile. Like I said, the geneva plate was broken also. Just would like to know what cracked both sides, and the plate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by yazu View Post
                            They drilled and taped a hole in the deck. Used L bracket, attached cable to back bolt on deck in 7 corner. Had threaded barrel through bracket with nut attached and tightened. It worked for awhile. Like I said, the geneva plate was broken also. Just would like to know what cracked both sides, and the plate.
                            It's hard to say exactly what cracked it. The deck being dropped onto standing pins would do this. I know of a center where they would knock OOR pins out with another pin and the deck would come down hard onto the remaining standing pins. The holding hook could have been out of adjustment and the deck slipped off and fell.
                            (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yazu: See if the geneva roller is running out of room at the top of the rear slot when deck is shifted to the rear. If so, a dremel with a 5/8" sanding drum can be used to relieve the top slot. This is a method od saving a cracked deck.
                              rfm

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