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  • Spoons not re-locking?

    Having a bit of trouble on lane 18 with the spoons not locking all the time. At least that's what I think is happening. When there is a 180 call, usually a pin is jammed in the turret while there are multiple pins on the deck. Looked at it a couple days ago and saw there was a nut missing on the roller bearing that's on the turret ring for the pin release lever so I put a nut on there. Also noticed that there was a lot of play in the interlock probe, so I did masternut's trick and put (2) #10 washers on the bolt and took the slop out. Seemed to run pretty good until yesterday. Had 2 calls on that lane where the exact same problem showed up. About all I can think of next to try is putting a new spring on for the spoons. Anything else I can try?
    jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

  • #2
    I know that turrets are one of your favorite pastimes How is the condition of the cam follower for the spoons? You know how when they get iffy they will just bring the spoons around open after the 5 index instead of rolling and locking the spider.
    70's MP/PBL/LBS,Q-Score
    Prolane Walker sport

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    • #3
      I glanced at it to see if it was missing or broken. Didn't check to see if it rolled freely. I will let the HM know to look at that as well. Thanks!
      jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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      • #4
        I glanced at it to see if it was missing or broken. Didn't check to see if it rolled freely. I will let the HM know to look at that as well. Thanks!
        jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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        • #5
          Where is the jammed pin and where are the pins that are lying on the moving deck?
          TSM & TSM Training Development
          Main Event Entertainment
          480-620-6758 for help or information

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          • #6
            Also I'd check the flanged oilete bearings in the pin release lever. If there's play in the lever pretty sure the head broke off the bearing. Always deceiving as they look intact but when pulled apart they fall right off.
            Ive had it where the lever would stick when released and not lock till it turned a bit. Just a suggestion.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Steve Stafford (JBEES) View Post
              Where is the jammed pin and where are the pins that are lying on the moving deck?
              jammed between turret wires and the halo. pins on the deck are in the 4, 7, 8 area
              jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Knowledge_is_key View Post
                Also I'd check the flanged oilete bearings in the pin release lever. If there's play in the lever pretty sure the head broke off the bearing. Always deceiving as they look intact but when pulled apart they fall right off.
                Ive had it where the lever would stick when released and not lock till it turned a bit. Just a suggestion.
                seemed ok when I looked at it. doesn't mean its not broke though. i will look into it on tues or let the HM know about it tomorrow and he can look at it and get back to everybody on here what we found.
                jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JohnSebeny View Post
                  jammed between turret wires and the halo. pins on the deck are in the 4, 7, 8 area
                  Which turret wires and where on the halo ring?

                  This could be a multiple index issue, interlock probe problem, snubber issue, deck height problem...many different things but where the pins are can lead you to a solution.
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steve Stafford (JBEES) View Post
                    Which turret wires and where on the halo ring?

                    This could be a multiple index issue, interlock probe problem, snubber issue, deck height problem...many different things but where the pins are can lead you to a solution.

                    Steve could you please elaborate on this for me. Been having the same thing lately on lane 19 after replacing a gearbox. It could be a deck height problem? Where would the pins be jammed/laying for that? Thanks always man.
                    I break it, I fix it. You break it, ... I fix it. Damn!

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                    • #11
                      The deck height issue will allow the pin release lever to be held "open" by the 5 pin after the pins have been released into the deck. That will mean although the turret basket will catch up to the spider assembly after five pin indexing, the spider will spring open again after indexing past the 9pin. Pins usually end up on top of the 4, 7 and 8 pin deck chutes.

                      Nothingunfixable, if this is your issue, Masternut has a mod that you can use which involves cutting the end of the pin release lever. And/or you can add an additional 1/4" to the machine height, which I believe Steve does to allow you to lower the deck further away from the turret...But Steve can elaborate on that.
                      Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                      Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                      Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                      Kegel C.A.T.S

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                      • #12
                        i've been doing masternut's mod on my pin release levers. never had an issue since
                        jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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                        • #13
                          Even cutting the pin release lever may not stop the issue if the deck is too high.

                          As Kanga eluded to...I set my deck lift shaft height to 32 7/8" instead of the 32 5/8" because I set my deck height different than the book adjustment. Depending on what book you use...you may be told to set your height to 5/8", 13/16", 15/16" or even 1". What I have found is that the deck can be set to a dimension that is determined by that machine...not an arbitrary number found in a book...and it does not matter what style of lowering device you are using as the adjustment is about "setting" the pin on the lane. The dimension usually runs around 1 1/8" to 1 3/16" and the extra height on the deck lift shaft allows this dimension without having the problem of the #5 pin hitting the pin release lever when the turret drops pins.

                          I don't want to hijack this thread dealing with something other than the original post...so I will stop at this point. If anyone is interested in this...we can always start a new thread.

                          Originally posted by nothingunfixable View Post
                          Steve could you please elaborate on this for me. Been having the same thing lately on lane 19 after replacing a gearbox. It could be a deck height problem? Where would the pins be jammed/laying for that? Thanks always man.
                          I hope the earlier info covers the height issue. The halo ring issue can be caused by a number of different things and where the pins are when you catch the call can be a clue as to what is causing the issue. When I catch calls (and my mechanics that work with me), I always write down as much information about the call as possible. This helps determine patterns which can lead to finding the cause of the issue. Examples are:

                          Turn pan jams...which way is the head of the pin pointing and what position is the turret.
                          Deadwood...which gutter is the pin in and which way is it pointing.
                          Respots...what cycle is the machine on and what is standing.

                          The last one seems like a no-brainer but you would be surprised how many centers I help where the only thing written down is that there was a respot...nothing else. Anyway, you get the idea.

                          Hope that helps...
                          TSM & TSM Training Development
                          Main Event Entertainment
                          480-620-6758 for help or information

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                          • #14
                            that's the kind of setup they use here at the center i work at. just tally how many stops there are. it's not a daily sheet, it's monthly. so if you have say ball return issues on a Tuesday and none the rest of the week, you have no idea if it was all in ONE Tuesday, or one each Tuesday of the month. nowhere to really write what you see. doesn't help either that the clipboard is bolted to the machine so if you do have to write something while the machine is on, it looks like chicken scratch, lol.
                            jsebeny1980@gmail.com | jsebeny <--YouTube | Cell: 309-275-2453

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                            • #15
                              I never cut the pin release lever.
                              With the machine at "0" and with pins in the buckets, reach in the 5-pin chute and grab the 5-pin and at the same time check if the pin touches the pin release when held in any down position. If it does, the first to check is the turret level (front to back). Adjust if needed.
                              Second, look at the deck cables. In almost every occasion I have had this issue, the cables were contacting the cross member. If this is touching on your trouble machine, adjust the long stroke so your cables are between 1/8" and 1/4" below the cross member. Lower the deck to 270 spotting new pins. Adjust the pinsetter height on the jack screws evenly to obtain your 15/16" (or your desirable) deck height off the floor.
                              This will lower your deck to a point where NO 5-pin will ever touch the pin release again while standing in the deck chute.
                              Now you will need to re-adjust the detector rod, low deck restricted drop, eccentric, holding hook and rake height... but this is well worth it.
                              "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                              Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

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