No Cycle Issue

[ScottyMo]

Lane 1 will run fine for sometimes a whole game, sometimes half a game, and sometimes only a few frames. The ball sensor will lock up, all three lights will be on when I go down for the call. All I have to do is touch the sensor, the lights go out, and the machine cycles. I have swapped the sensor itself and TDM with working ones and it still happens. This has been ongoing for a while now and really have to get it taken care of. Don't know what else to check.

[drhookmec]

If you swapped the ball detect and time delay from a working lane (to be sure the parts are good) and still have the same problem
I'd check the Ball Detect cable it may be getting pinched somewhere around the side of the machine and shorting out.
Or try swapping the cable with a known good one from another lane and see if the problem moves.

[Pinsetterbetter]

I agree about the cable. I have had a few cables with loose pins in the past.

[Lonnie_Mitchell]

What kind of Ball Detect are you using? Three lights? Does your device have a sending and receiving unit or a beam with a reflector? To get the best answer, we need more info.
According to your profile, you have Brunswick Jet Backs. I would first replace your solenoid as this is also a sign of a solenoid becoming weak and not always having enough pull to engage the clutch.

[ScottyMo]

Lonnie, I have the 3 lights ball detect with a beam to a reflector. As I stated before the lights get "locked on". Therefore it has nothing to do with the solenoid. I have swapped everything with known working parts and even put on a new reflector. The only thing I have not swapped is the cable and I am doing that now.

[Lonnie_Mitchell]

Three lights ball detect still doesn't tell me the brand. ZOT has 4 lights when calibrated correctly, Bowltronics has lights on both the sensor as well as the unit, Some Brunswick sensors have lights, etc...! The scoring you have may tell us what ball detect you have such as Qubica has sensors at the camera unit. You said the sensor was locked up, and the lights were on. Most units I deal with, the lights are on when at the ready, yet you also said you could touch the sensor and the lights went out, that sounded like the sensor was working to me. How are you determining that the lights are locked on if they go off when the sensor is touched? Are the lights supposed to be on or off when in the "ready" condition? Do you use the older TDM's with the larger relays and do you hear the relay energize when you trip the sensor? You said you replaced the sensor. Did you also replace the detection unit itself? These are two separate items. Please clarify! A solenoid has everything to do with cycling and is always a possibility when it comes to a machine not cycling every time and easier to replace and eliminate as a possibility before pulling cables! With most units, an open cable would show no lights as well as no cycle. A shorted cable may present continuous cycle issues. Yours at least show lights which means that the sensor is detecting its reflection. Again, I ask, what kind of ball detection is this? ("3 lights" is not a brand name)

Just trying to help!

[ScottyMo]

The lights are supposed to be off. They light up when the ball passes by or "Breaks the Beam". They stay on like something is blocking the beam, but there is nothing there. So if the lights are on, then it's not detecting its reflection? When the lights are stuck on, the relay in the TDM does not energize. That's why I said it's not the solenoid, the problem is before the solenoid. It is a brunswick sensor, I have included a picture. Not a great picture.1002021519.jpg

[sboring1977]

So it looks like a Brunswick Scoring system, probably AS-90's. Just a guess. But you might have a issue with your com cable from the CCD to the Ball detect. Check the moldex plugs at teh ball detects and the plug at the ccd it self, also make sure your CCD is properly grounded. I have had ball detect issues before and the solution was a bad grounding lead at the box, also are your CCD's mounted on the curtain wall or under you capping by the cameras?

[ScottyMo]

Well, I just swapped cables from Lane #1 and #2 and bowled 3 games on #2 and 1 game on #1 and had no issues. And sorry sb, what are you asking about CCD?

[Lonnie_Mitchell]

Glad you got it!

[ScottyMo]

Thanks Lonnie, but I don't understand how just swapping the cables would fix the problem. I guess I'll have to wait and see after we get some play on it.

[sboring1977]

The silver scoring box that is attached to each pair of lanes that the AS system at the front desk is connected to.

[ScottyMo]

Got it sb, but then wouldn't it affect both lanes?

[drhookmec]

I don't understand how just swapping the cables would fix the problem. I guess I'll have to wait and see after we get some play on it.

Electronics can be funny that way sometimes, The only reason i can think of
would be if you had a bad connection at either the ball detect or the time delay and by switching the cables you fixed it.

But as you say keep an eye on it, Time will tell.

[ScottyMo]

Well, woke up this morning, went down back, and the LED lights were on again. Nobody even bowled there last night. sb, my CCD's are located on the curtain wall, guess we'll have to start there.