pins are being respotted after second ball has been thrown?????

[busman]

This is exactly what is happening. You throw your first ball and knock down 7 pins, machine picks up the three left and sweeps then sets down and goes to second ball like its supposed to. You throw your second ball and miss all three, the machine then picks up all three,sweeps then sets the three remaining pins back on the deck for a second try at them. This occurs maybe twice a game. It doesnt happen every frame. Im stumped on this one! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mechanic at Butler Bowl in Butler,Indiana

[Kanga (James)]

Is the deck holding hook properly engaging the pin on the deck post?

[webee]

I would think that even if the deck holding hook wasn't engaging, the scissors wouldn't close to pick up the pins. Sounds like the machine believes it's on first ball when it isn't supposed to be.

[Kanga (James)]

Not quite true. When the deck is held up by the deck holding hook the detector goes through a strike or "Auto Strike" cycle. If the deck holding hook fails to engage the pin on the deck post, the detector will make it's usual detection at 90 and proceed thereafter based on the deck height.

[webee]

Ah, thank you for that info, Kanga.

[Phil_B]

Good way to practice spares...lol

Possibly a detector rod adjustment is in order.

[jim_long]

Just like Kanga said, second ball cycle is a forced strike cycle only if the deck stays on the holding hook, or you manage to make the spare.

[busman]

Is the deck holding hook properly engaging the pin on the deck post?

It does hook properly 8 out of 10 frames a game. When it doesn't it seems to pop up after the 2nd ball is thrown and does not hook. You then have to reset it once or twice sometimes to get it to hook and wipe the pins away. We have adjusted it (I hope properly), and so has another center owner that has A2's. Just as a side note we have just installed older Brunswick scoring. I don't think this has anything to do with this problem but thought I'd better throw this in as well.
Thank you.

[Carl D]

Also check to see if the springs on the detector standing pins controller and selector are missing or weak.

Edit: disregard since it does appear to be a deck holding hook problem. We posted at the same time, busman.

[Carl D]

This is a reply I posted in another thread a few weeks back:

I had a recent problem on a machine (no overtravel) where the deck holding hook ended up sitting on top of the deck post pin instead of the hook dropping over the pin after the 1st ball cycle.

Then, the deck would go down again after the 2nd ball was bowled and the machine would do another 1st ball cycle (of course). Not every frame. About every 2 or 3 frames.

No-one had touched the holding hook adjustment since it was installed (probably a couple of years ago) and the machine had no problems with the hook up until when this suddenly started happening.

It was an adjustable (2 piece) deck holding hook so all I did was move the hook forward about a quarter of an inch and the problem was solved.

May also be helpful.

[Kanga (James)]

If someone has recently installed a 7 or 8 pin deck chute incorrectly, they can push up against the bottom protector and prevent the deck from fully raising to be held by the holding hook.

[amechwannabe]

is the deck lift shaft cracked? I had one where the crack was so bad it caused the deck holding hook to not sit properly on the pin. The only reason I remember it is because dude was on a 7 bagger and I had to shift them a pair to the left. I wasn't their favorite mechanic for weeks after that.

[Phil_B]

Check for a bind in the standing pins controller. Maybe a mist of wd40 might help to free things up. I had this happen after a detector rebuild.

[joeshlep]

deck post bearing? or maybe hook selector bearing.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Something to look at is if the 2nd ball light is on or not when this occurs. If it is on 1st ball when it should be on 2nd ball...I would suspect something int he detector. If it is on 2nd ball...then the deck holding hook is not catching even though it is being told to. Outside of the obvious issue with the deck holding hook/adjustment...you might look at the 2:1. If you have Scotch Yokes...the bearing riding in the T track may be going south.