Hell week continues...turret help

[BowlingNut]

New issue,
turret indexes to 5-pin, 5 pin goes in, drops pins into deck, stays at 180. turret acts like it wants to index, does not. if i give it a little nudge it will index. as i have observed it the latch on the short link has unlatched, turret roller seems like it is stuck or very sluggish on the cam. I tried changing both short and long turret belts thinking it is a tension issue, thinking belts were stretched, no go. any ideas i have overlooked?? should i change turret roller?? Boy this weekend cant come fast enough.....

[Carl D]

turret acts like it wants to index, does not

Does it do a 'partial' index after the 5 pin?

If so, then check the turret cam follower roller. If it's OK, then check the alignment of the projection on the indexing cam and the roller at the front of the long link.

If the projection on the indexing cam is only just contacting the top or bottom edge of the roller, the projection can 'slip' off the edge of the roller and cause a failure to index (usually a 'partial' index) after the 5 pin.

[JohnSebeny]

what style cam do you have? if you have the cast (heavy) style, i'd say the chances of that being messed up are pretty dang slim. if you have the stamped style, could be a good chance one of the depressions or rises is out of whack. do you have a spare? can you try swapping cams and see if that makes it go away? i had that happen on lane 18 out here, the cam was bad in a certain spot and wouldn't index quite right after 5. what i like doing when rebuilding the turrets is take a file and file all the rough spots smooth (on the stamped style cam) so i can assure that there's no issues w/indexing spot to spot.

[Kanga (James)]

You can try to add a turn or two the long turret belt tension spring... It could be that the short belt and lower TC pulley are worn and the belt is bottoming out.

Another cause can be an improperly installed drip pan binding up the interlock cross shaft it hooks onto, this'll prevent the long link from moving back as the front roller is pushed by the lobe on the indexing cam.

[nafkwah32]

A few things to check. All bolts under index cam,make sure the index bellcrank bolt that goes into the turret support is tight,Turret clutch top pulley/friction disc and turret delay gear for excessive wear or worn/broken teeth. Make sure that the spacer is in between the 2 bearings that the shaft is on. Also check to see if there is something behind the slide plate preventing it from moving freely(broken snubber bolt). Bolt for spoon too long(catching on support). See if the trip arm that opens the torsion latch is bent down and catching on the the top of the turret clutch bolt. Good Luck.

[BowlingNut]

I believe I have it...turret indexing roller was worn. replaced and it has been running fine. I did also take a file and smooth out the cam in that spot for the 5-pin..seemed to have a little edge to it. Also had the short belt off and made sure slide plate is correctly seated. Ran and ran and ran some more, no issue. I am gonna make sure I don't have a spoon bolt too low also. Thanks as always!!

[BowlingNut]

OK, now seem to have an issue with the 1, 7, and 10 spots. When the pin falls in, it sometimes does not trip the lever to index. I was playing around with the trip lever adjustment when I couldn't figure out the 5-pin issue, now that that is fixed I'm having trouble with this. Thoughts?? I will be happy to pop open a few adult pops tonight.......

[wepauls]

adjust belt tensioner titer

[nafkwah32]

If the pin drops in the turret and it doesn't push it down either the spring needs to be re-adj or you have a bind in the c-link/bellcrank. If it pushes it down and it doesn't index then I would put more tension on the long belt or replace the short belt.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

If you have issues at the 1, 7 or 10 positions, you could have an issue with the long turret drive belt tension being too tight. The pin just sitting in the turret wires at these positions is the ultimate test for indexing...and if the pin won't push down on the indexing trip lever, an adjustment is no doubt needed. There are a couple of things that could cause this...but belt tension is usually where the issue is found. The long turret drive belt should only be tight enough to get the turret to index past the 5 without a hesitation. Loosen the belt until the turret hesitates going by the 5...then tighten back up a few turns. Then try to set a pin...carefully...onto the indexing trip lever at the 1, 7 or 10 and see if it will index then. If it still will not index, we might need to look at the shape of the indexing latch.

[BowlingNut]

I've done what you said steve...seems to be working much better. I will post in a day to let you know. Thanks

[BowlingNut]

I ran it yesterday with only 2 times it stopped. I tweaked the belt again and ran it, seems better yet.

[redolay]

It seems as though i have the same issues as bowling nut. If i was to take out the roller on the indexing cam, would i be looking for a crack or would the inners be worn more likely. Is it likely that if the long link and roller are worn(the edges seem rounded and damaged) it could cause slippage at the 5 pin

[Kanga (James)]

Redolay: The index roller OD and ID can change. If you can find a current cause for the damage to the long link then you could be on to something, but if the damage is pre-existing then I don't see a connection.

If you have tried the above suggestions without success your best off posting another thread stating what you have tried. Replying to two different people in the same thread can become somewhat confusing.

[BowlingNut]

I have discovered two things influencing my problems with this lane...First, When I was replacing the left hand blocking finger (different issue, but needed to be replaced) I looked at the turret long belt idler pulley, the bearings were shot and the pulley was wobbly. Second, the rear stop assembly for the turret trip lever was not the right part. It was the retainer for the forward end of the compression spring that was installed on the rear . Someone had put the rubber stop on, but the adjustment was WAY off because of having the wrong part on. Once I had replaced the pulley I ran machine, actually had to remove tension on the long turret belt spring. Seems that because bearings were no good, I couldn't get enough tension to get the turret to index after the five pin. And once I adjusted spring (actually mis-adjusted it temporarily until I receive new parts tomorrow), the pins are dropping onto lever and spoons good. This has been a weird problem, I have a feeling the original issue all started with this pulley going bad.