GAH DANGIT! Turret issue

[JohnSebeny]

First if all I hate asking for help on this area cause I feel as though I have a decent grasp in this area but I'm stumped.

Rebuilt turret (about 2-3mo ago). Pin falls through the 5pin chute and doesn't always release the spider assembly. When it doesn't, it either SLOWLY tries to release when the trip arm contacts the torsion latch or it just sits there. Tried to get video and of course it didn't act up when I hit record lol. I've done peanuts mod on the release lever, the roller bearing is not loose, interlock probe isn't, it clears the blocking. Its almost like there isn't enough OOMPH to get the torsion latch to trip.

Any suggestions?

[JohnSebeny]

This is on lane 9 that I rebuilt but we're also having the same issue on 18 that the HM built

[drhookmec]

John check the gap between the trip link and the torsion latch when he turret is at the 5-pin
Should be at least 1/4" more is better.

Also try tripping the torsion latch by hand and see if it's hard to move.

If that checks out good,
Then check your cam follower bearing on the turret release lever.

[JohnSebeny]

Had a reply all typed out then said I wasn't logged in. Grr lol

I took the release lever out to double check myself. It measured at 5 1/8" so I took it to 5 1/4". Seemed to work ok after I did that. I tried tripping the torsion latch and it was difficult to budge it but once I did it was fine.

[JohnSebeny]

Oh, and I do have at least 1/4" gap from trip arm to torsion latch.

[drhookmec]

H I tried tripping the torsion latch and it was difficult to budge it but once I did it was fine.

There's your problem,, You need to find out why it was difficult to move
It shouldn't at anytime be difficult to move.
It may be fine now but will bind up again later, could be a problem with the torsion latch stop bumper
allowing the torsion latch to go to far under the time delay gear or
the long turret drive belt is to tight, or

The stopping block on the bottom of the time delay gear
could have a grove worn into it making it hard to move.

Let us know what you find.

[JohnSebeny]

i was assuming you meant to try moving the torsion latch with the power off, but i tried with the power on as well.

with the power on it took some effort

with power on, then turned off still took effort but not as much

(hard to explain--lol)

im 99% sure i put a brand new time delay gear in there. all of the ones i've rebuilt so far have needed replaced. whether it was the block was worn halfway through, or the 3 teeth opposite the block were there but only about as thick as a human hair. i know Peanut uses a light film of grease in that area. think that'd do the trick?

[JohnSebeny]

if you want, give me a call sometime tomorrow. number is there in my signature below. if i don't answer, leave a message and i'll call ya back as soon as i can.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

John...take the clutch out and assemble the time delay gear and the torsion latch onto the clutch. Leave the rest off. Turn the clutch over and look at the bottom of the time delay gear as the torsion latch meets the block. The surface of the torsion latch and the block must match...move the torsion latch as it would to clear the block. You should notice that the latch clears the block without causing the gear to rotate backwards. If the gear rotates backwards while the latch moves...it will need to do that in the machine also...and moving the gear backwards will cause the latch to "bind" as it tries to rotate out of the way of the block. Look at this image and hopefully you will get the idea.

[Popeye]

In addition to these other good points remember, the pressure between these two parts that Steve is showing in the picture is provided by the top pulley disc and the clutch facings. If there is too much force to move the torsion latch and it is not the problem that Steve mentioned then there is too much friction between the disc and the facings. I would look for glazing or grooving on either surface. I prefer the plastic clutch facings as they create less friction on the disc.

[JohnSebeny]

In addition to these other good points remember, the pressure between these two parts that Steve is showing in the picture is provided by the top pulley disc and the clutch facings. If there is too much force to move the torsion latch and it is not the problem that Steve mentioned then there is too much friction between the disc and the facings. I would look for glazing or grooving on either surface. I prefer the plastic clutch facings as they create less friction on the disc.

you know, i think that might be the lane i ended up using some goofy facings on it. when i went to rebuilt the clutch, i noticed the facings were wider than normal and had an odd wear pattern to it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/bz0o3rxgmn...528_163553.jpg

i remember showing this to the HM, but now I can't recall if we decided to scrap 'em or use 'em. guess i know what i'll be doing tonight after league if I can.

[jim_long]

Check the rubber bumper stop for the torsion latch. If it has a big grove in it from years of use, it will let the latch go to far into the stop block on the under side of the gear. This puts every thing out of place, and makes the gear have to turn backwards slightly before releasing. If necessary, turn the bumper 90 degrees to get a new stop surface that puts the latch where it needs to be.

If the stop is good, take a small dab of grease on the tip of your finger and with LOTO, turn the drive belt backwards a hair to release the tension on the latch. Stick your finger (with the grease) and wipe it between the end of the latch and the stop block. Fire it up, and trip the latch by hand. It should be real easy to trip.

[wepauls]

[ Note ] I think Thar's are two rubber stops for release lever
12-150246 being the right one [ i think 1.1/4 " ][1, 1/8" ] ?

[cuda96]

[ Note ] I think Thar's are two rubber stops for release lever
12-150246 being the right one [ i think 1.1/4 " ][1, 1/8" ] ?

There are actually 3. Two for use on the A-2's, 12-150246-000 (1-1/16")and 12-150246-002 (1-1/4") and one for use on the older A's 11-650004.
I only have this information on hand because I had to look it up for one of my machines today.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Cuda...the difference in the stops is not that they go on A's or A-2's but aluminum or steel turret frames. Steel turret frames ended on S/N 12844. The A-2 didn't come out until S/N 80000. Didn't want anybody getting confused.