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Pesky 1/2 ball lights

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  • Pesky 1/2 ball lights

    Got a machine (Jap A-2) that runs first and second ball lights at the same time. FB/SB switch was replaced... no change. Continuity checks on all wires show no crossovers. Touching black or white to red (one at a time) on FB/SB switch lights both lights. I've chased this thing for over 4 hours now. It's messing up our Frameworx scorer on that lane. Need you help since I never did get Obiwan's electrical troubleshooting guide.
    An added note... I've also got a 24V reading from any wire to ground on that same machine... and some others! That's with the circuit breaker off and the power plug disconnected. Got a leak somewhere... any suggestions?

  • #2
    Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

    Roger,
    The first thing I would try is disconnecting the managers control cable...see if that takes away your problem with either the FB/SB light or the 24vac to ground...your "leak" could be in any of the machines in that bank of 8. Next disconnect the wires from 4,7 and 8 on TS2 in the electrical box. They should be the same wire colors you had at the switch...put a jumper between 4 and 7 and see if both lights or only the 1st ball light goes on. If both go on...start looking into the cable that goes to the masking unit. If only the 1st ball light goes on...start looking at the cable you just disconnected from 4,7 and 8. It runs through the wire channel and then under the cross conveyor...any of these places could have frayed the cable and causing both of your problems...good luck and let us know what you find.

    Steve

    PS I don't know frameworks, but it sounds like your 2nd ball light might send a signal to the scorer. If it does...try disconnecting it and see if the problem goes away...again, I don't know frameworks so I can't be sure of this suggestion.

    [This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 06-04-2000).]
    TSM & TSM Training Development
    Main Event Entertainment
    480-620-6758 for help or information

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    • #3
      Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

      Hey Roger
      JBEES has a good point on you could be getting a leak from another machine in the 8 lanes segment that machine is in.
      He suggested unplugging the managers control plug.
      Turn on ALL 8 lanes and unplug the managers control plug on the OTHER 7 lanes one at a time and if the 1-2 lights go back to normal you know which lane could be the one with the low voltage problem.
      Is it possible that the time delay module can send voltage out since it checks which ball the machine is on???
      I do not know but you might want to swap it with another one.
      grambo

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      • #4
        Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

        A quick fix for the scorer: (works on AS series, at least)

        Disconnect the scorer wire (black or white) from terminal 7 or 8. THis will cause the scorer to think its always first ball. WHile you will get some mis-scores on second ball late fallers, it's better than taking pictures of pin bellies at 144 on first ball

        The way the scorer works:

        On first ball, you will get 0 volts between low voltage terminals 1 and (7 or 8, usually 8, but always where the scorer wire is hooked up), and 24 volts on second ball. This tells the ccd processer whether to take data at 44 or 144. Since both lights are on, the scorer always gets 24 volts, thinks it's second ball, and takes data at 144 on first ball, reading the pin bellies (been there, done that, ain't pretty) when the machine is in mid-cycle with pins up in the air! BY the way, scanner tester will always say second ball when this occurs.

        Steve's procedure for isolating the problem is right on target, if the problem is in the cabling for the 1/2.

        If it's actually a ground short, here's what to do:

        Disconnect the main power plug and the manager's cable from your problem child. Check continuity from ALL terminals on the low voltage strip to ground. There should be NO continuity anywhere. If there is, check all wiring from terminals where you get continuity and find the bare/shorted spot.

        If you don't get any continuity:

        Plug in manager's line and re-check continuity. Where you find continuity, leave the continuity tester hooked up, on audio so you can hear it, and disconnect the other 7 manager's lines from that bank of 8. One at a time, plug them back in, and if it doesn't beep, unplug it. When you hit the one that beeps, unplug it (manager's and power) and test it to find the ground problem.

        Ground shorts are a right PITA, but easy to get rid of if you're systematic about it.

        Sorry about the essay, but hope something here helps:

        Kevin

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        • #5
          Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

          Hey Bowl Techers
          KL Kevin is right that low voltage grounds are a PITA (pain in the A--).
          I know most of you know this must here are the most LIKELY causes I found of causing these headaches.
          Check the cable from the accellerator control box to the power lift.
          These wires are known to get to pinched from balls going through the accellerator and the downsweep cover.
          We had gold crown ball clusters.
          Check the reset button wires because they can touchthe bracket that holds the hand dryer motor or touch the frame and send back a false ground.
          Also check inside the new pin solenoid box because any of those low voltage wires can also cause a problem.
          Check the cable clamping nut because it can come loose and wear through insulation and send voltage back through the d/a board.
          Also make sure the take data relay(reset button kit) is not touching the electrical box because this will also send false signals.(usually the machine will reset when the rake comes up instead of when the rake goes down)
          Also check around the power lift to make sure no wires are in the path of the ball track.
          Also make sure NO wires are being pinched when the sweep goes into 180.
          These are the most common problems I found but I would pay close attention to the wires from the accellerator box to the power lift around the dropsweep because this is an easy place for a wire to get frayed or pinched.
          I hope this might help someone someday.
          Grambo

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          • #6
            Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

            Whew! This thing is killing me! Did as JBEES suggested... all wires checked fine but 1/2 ball lights still lit at same time! Replaced cable with fresh... machine cycled four frames OK then went to 1/2 ball lights on at same time. Replaced switch... machine was OK for four frames then 1/2 ball lights came on at same time! Replaced J-24... machine OK for four frames then 1/2 ball lights came on at same time! Found bad ground on accelerator motor... corrected.. machine ran fine for four frames then 1/2 ball lights came on at same time. Thanks to KL Kevin (disconnect white wire at terminal 8) we are able to run machine ( and collect money for bowling) but 1/2 ball lights still come on at same time. I can't see a relationship between terminals 7 and 8 (one and two ball lights) on TS-2 except through the switch. Frameworx ties in at terminals 1 and 8 on TS-2, getting second ball direction from terminal 8 on TS-2. My schematic shows no common link between terminals 7 and 8 on TS-2 except through the switch. We were able to isolate the 24V leak to machine 9 in the bank (our problem child is 14) but the 1/2 ball lights on 14 still light at the same time with 9 unplugged and out of the bank. I disconnected all Frameworx terminals to 14 but 1/2 ball lights still lit at same time.
            During this process, we noticed the pin light was not functioning... we replaced it and machine was OK for four frames then 1/2 ball lights came on at the same time. Thought the transformer was heating up nd shorting out but machine 14 had been off over 14 hours (overnight) and problem was still there!
            Any suggestions as to what to look at next?
            Added note: We put in a fresh time delay module but problem still persisted.

            [This message has been edited by Roger Frazier (edited 06-11-2000).]

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            • #7
              Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

              Roger:

              Try this:

              When both lights are lit, Pull both bulbs out of 1/2, then disconnect switch wires from 7,8. Put continuity tester across 7/8. If you get continuity, short is in wiring from masking unit to terminal strip( with bulbs out, the only way you'd get continuity is if the two wires are shorted). Cycle machine a few times if you're not sure.

              If that doesn't show continuity, put continuity tester across the switch leads you took off 7,8. You should get nothing there, either, because the switch can't make contact on both sides without a shorted wire.

              At least that'll cut the circuit in half to make it easier to find.

              Another thought: Are the bulbs the right ones (number)... different bulbs are wired differently, might want to be sure they're the right ones, just in case.

              Let me know:

              Kevin

              [This message has been edited by KL Kevin (edited 06-11-2000).]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pesky 1/2 ball lights

                Got it!
                After making sure the problem was not in the switch cable nor the cable (and its enclosed wires) going to the masking unit I decided the problem was between TS-2 and the plug... in other words, within the electrical box itself.
                When I disconnected the wire (number 43 on the schematic) leading from TS-2 to the plug, a piece of solder fell out from behind TS-2. Seems this little rascal (about the size of a fingernail clipping... whatever size that is... was occasionally bridging terminals 7 & 8 on TS-2 and lighting both lights.
                Said piece of solder is now in file 13 (really deep) and machine 14 is perky as ever!
                That's what I like about this business... all the problems are really simple! Thanks for your help.
                No... I don't know where the solder came from and I really don't want to open that can of worms! This machine has not had any rewiring since installation about 10 years ago so the errant piece was there to start and eventually vibrated into a problem area or it was part of a "cold solder" that... according to Murphy's Law... dropped into the only place where it could cause the most aggravation.

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