Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

[Roscoe Tech of the Year 2000 Find all posts View Profile Close Roscoe]

Just wondering how many more kits are going to come from Manuf. with the ground wire installed on the hot leg of the plug in?
This is kit nu. 12-862905-230. For the last 15 years, the plug comes wired this way. After a lawsuit in New Jersey, where 40 time delay modules were destroyed, by a manuf. installation, one would think that that the person responsible would have been informed and, or replaced. But nooooo. Have never installed one without checking first, and it still goes on. Puzzling.
Roscoe

[EDJ Members Find all posts View Profile Close EDJ]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

We had a customer two years ago that had the same problem when they converted their A Pinsetters to a Mini Version. At that time Brunswick gave then the all to familar answer. Are you sure that it was installed correctly? This is the first time we heard of this problem. The result was a blown breaker in the electrical panel because of the direct short to ground and complete surprise for the mechanic when the machine was turned on.

Ed J

[wjf22 Members Find all posts View Profile Close wjf22]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

Hello:

I have also experienced problems with Brunswick part 12-862905-230. As part of an update to our A-machines we installed the rake performance package along with electronic triggering. We also replaced our mechanical solenoids with the part mentioned.
Once installed and plugged into the wire channel, we discovered a very serious problem. When we turned on the circuit breaker in the front panel box. The panel box caught fire. Much to our disbelief we found that all the new solenoids were wired incorrectly (grounds were all wired hot) resulting in damage to some of the components in our pinsetter panel box. Since the solenoid was wired to the high voltage side (230 volts) the fustat and fuse were bypassed.

I contacted people at Brunswick and I was told that it was impossible. Can not happen. It is refreshing to know that I am not losing my mind and unfortunately others have experience similar problem.

When Brunswick initially sold "mini kit" packages, the solenoids were included in the package and were wired 115 volt. Currently, everything is a la carte.

I also heard that may similar problems may have occurred in bowling centers in Missouri and Las Vegas. If anyone is aware od similar problems would be interested in hearing from you.

[This message has been edited by wjf22 (edited 07-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by wjf22 (edited 07-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by wjf22 (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Roscoe Tech of the Year 2000 Find all posts View Profile Close Roscoe]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

Wjf22:
One would hope that the manuf. in question, is smart enough to have designated an employee just to monitor this site, most all parts suppliers, that I know of, find it de rigueur. This is one problem I find indefensible, as I know from personal experience, that of having talked to their engineers, 15 years ago about it.
It is distressing to have a major supplier ignore comments from their customers.
But finally there is a venue they will not be able to ignore, and I thank Mike Wilson, for having provided it to us.
I think this is the most positive, powerful tool available to the maintaince personal, that exists in the industry.
And it grows stronger by the day.
We truly are, A Band Of Brothers.
Roscoe

[wjf22 Members Find all posts View Profile Close wjf22]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

Quote:]Originally posted by Midwest Pinsetter Service:
Just wondering how many more kits are going to come from Manuf. with the ground wire installed on the hot leg of the plug in?
This is kit nu. 12-862905-230. For the last 15 years, the plug comes wired this way. After a lawsuit in New Jersey, where 40 time delay modules were destroyed, by a manuf. installation, one would think that that the person responsible would have been informed and, or replaced. But nooooo. Have never installed one without checking first, and it still goes on. Puzzling.
Roscoe
[/QUOTE]

[wjf22 Members Find all posts View Profile Close wjf22]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

Hi Roscoe:

Just learned of two more centers that experienced similar problems. Bennington Lanes in Bennington, Vermont had 8 out of 12 solenoids wired incorrectly. They were installed in July/August 1999. He wound up damaging two time delay modules in the deal.

Dinuba Lanes in Dinuba, California received 16 cycle solenoids. All 16 were wired incorrectly. This installation took place in January 2000.

It appears that problem might still persist. Recommend that any bowling center installing part #12-860905-230 check to see if ground is wired HOT!!! before installing part to avoid any damage to pinsetter.


[This message has been edited by wjf22 (edited 07-19-2000).]

[Larry Members Find all posts View Profile Close Larry]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

What you guys are experiencing is not fun. I have bought soleniods (230v) from bruns and all are ok. You figure this out. You might check the numbers on the soleniods the ones I have are as followed: a420-066929-00
2hd-I-240 vac/oem
made by guardian electric
which is part #10-688003.
This conversion used same soleniod.!!!!!!!!

[wjf22 Members Find all posts View Profile Close wjf22]

Re: Solenoid kits, 12-862905-230

Larry:

The problem is not the solenoid itself. Whoever is doing the assembly work is wiring the ground leg HOT!!! Once that it is plugged into the wire channel and the machine is turned on it goes to a dead short. More often than not it causes damage to the components in the panel box. One center lost two time delay modules as a result.

Once the wires are reversed and placed on the proper legs, the solenoids work perfectly. Four or five centers that I know of have experienced the aforementioned problem.


[This message has been edited by wjf22 (edited 07-21-2000).]