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  • selenium rectifier

    just curious, half of my machines have a capacitor hooked up to the rectifier. i was wondering if this can be removed when i install a new rectifier. i like the old style as opposed to the new style quality retifiers. anyway, can this be obsoleted or must it remain in place in order for the recifier to work properly? thank for your input.............shamefowjze
    Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
    Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
    Cloth: ShamWow!
    Machine: Johnny 5
    Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper

  • #2
    Re: selenium rectifier

    Shamefowjze:
    If possible leave caps in line.
    They are put there originally to miniumise arcing at the cross conveyor micro switch.
    They also, in later applications, suppress noise (electronic) in the circuit, in fact are recommended by all infra trigger systems.
    I have also found them useful in assisting in the collapse of the field for the mag. clutch, thus helping prevent pin wheel overrun
    Roscoe
    rfm

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: selenium rectifier

      so, in other words, if i don't have them in line. it might be a good idea to install them as a precautionary measure?
      Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
      Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
      Cloth: ShamWow!
      Machine: Johnny 5
      Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: selenium rectifier

        [QUOTE]Originally posted by shamefowjze:
        The capacitor in the magnetic clutch/rectifier circuit was added when Brunswick came out with the A2 and Coverted A2 Pinsetters. With the additional speed of a A2 and the pins going up the cross conveyor faster which would speed up the time that the cross conveyor micro switch would open and close. The capacitor smooths out the DC voltage helping the magnetic clutch operate more efficently.If your pinsetters have been slowed down it probably would not be any problem if removed. All A Pinsetters did not have this capacitor in the DC circuit and ran with very few problems.

        EDJ


        [This message has been edited by EDJ (edited 03-12-2000).]

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        • #5
          Re: selenium rectifier

          To: Rosco
          After working on Brunswick A pinsetters from serial No's 700 to 68,000 and not seeing the caps in the rectifier circuit, I assumed that the caps were for only A2's, since their serial no's started soon after that. Sorry about that.

          To: Kevin
          As far as causing recycling on pinsetters with infra red trigging. My experience has not been with a Zot unit but with a competing brand, which was not connected to the primary voltage system on the pinsetter. We did not have any recycle problems without this cap installed

          [This message has been edited by EDJ (edited 03-13-2000).]

          [This message has been edited by EDJ (edited 03-13-2000).]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: selenium rectifier

            I have the zot super magics, on jetback machines. Zot supplied the caps as electrical noise filters, to prevent false triggering. Leave them in, they don't hurt anything and if it stops one rake hit from a false cycle, it's done its .25 worth.

            Kevin

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            • #7
              Re: selenium rectifier

              EDJ:
              Seems as if a little remedial reading is in order.
              Start with P.1-78, para.3 in manual coded,12-752828-000.
              With all due respects there were indeed mdl A mchs with .047-600V caps installed, albeit, late serial num.
              Respectifully submitted:
              Roscoe
              rfm

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: selenium rectifier

                EDJ:

                The super magics pull their power from the low voltage strip in the A/P control box (notably, the time delay module in the A-2 is also intimate with the pinsetter electrical box) If your I/R stuff wasn't hooked into the a/p power box, noise isn't a factor.

                As a point of information, a .047 MFD cap is too small to do any real voltage smoothing, to accomplish this, you need something in the 1000 mfd range, typically an electrolytic half the size of a cigar is used when you are running a transformer/rectifier combo to create steady DC.

                Roscoe: Did the Cap across the rectifier appear around the time the time delay modules did ... just curious, I've never worked on anything other than my cable triggers, and was just wondering if the need for noise filtering showed up at the same time the first TD modules did???

                Another item, shamefo, as far as the rectifiers go. The electronics industry went away from selenium rectifiers almost as soon as the silicon units became available. Silicon is far superior to selenium in it's ability to withstand temperature and power. A properly heat-sinked silicon unit should far outlast selenium. Just curious as to why you prefer the old ones, although mine are all still original, as far as I know.

                Kevin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: selenium rectifier

                  KL:
                  Caps appeared about the same time it became obvious arcing was a problem, Same principle as was used on points and (condensor)- read caps, used on autos forever. Your dead on as to using the later type rectifiers, much superior to spiking, etc.
                  Added advantage of being able to replace them without gagging.
                  Roscoe
                  rfm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: selenium rectifier

                    Not being a brend B mechanic but when I saw Roscoe's posting above it reminded me of a situation years ago. I worked at a center in toledo oh. 82/30 machines. In the mgr. control panel at the front desk were two selenium rectifiers connected to the frame counter. We had problems with them over heating and burning out. Not a big deal-only lost the frame meter. BUT! When they did burn out it smelled like a very bad fart.. Anyone working the counter dreaded when this would happen. One night two guys working the counter and one lets loose (rectifier). A gal walks up to the counter for change. She gets her change,looks up and says "you guys are sick". I'm sure no explanation would have sunk in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: selenium rectifier

                      kevin, the reason i prefer the old style recifiers over the silicon ones is simply due to the reason that i've never been able to get one of them to work. i'll put one in and blow fuse, after fuse, after fuse but to no avail. i mean there is 4 wires and instructions i don't know how i could be doing it wrong,but i'm not ruling out "pilot error". but as soon as i put in an old style it works perfect. it doesn't make sense but sice i can get them to work i obviously prefer those. and that's the only reason. by the way kevin congratulations on the tech of the year award.......shamefowjze
                      Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
                      Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
                      Cloth: ShamWow!
                      Machine: Johnny 5
                      Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: selenium rectifier

                        Shamefowjze--make sue yor are connecting the 2 ac wires to the ac termainals of the recifier, it dones not matter which way. then turn power on to fine out if fuse blows. if not hook up dc wires, look at schematic in service manual to make sure which wire goes to the positive + side of the recifier. i have never tried to hook up these two wires backwards, don't know if negative dc will operate the magnetic clutch. If you have capacitors, make sure of there polarity also. hook caps up backwards will give you a smell.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: selenium rectifier

                          Shamefowjze,

                          Several years ago I had a few silicon rectifiers from Quality Corp. that came with a single page wiring diagram that was wrong.

                          I think that the "+" and "-" (DC voltage out) were at oposite corners on the rectifier, but the diagram showed them next to each other.

                          I caught the error before installing any of them, but I imagine that wiring it that way would have blown the fuse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: selenium rectifier

                            As far as the silicon units go, Easy way to hook them up:

                            The two wires that go to the yellow dot terminals on the selenium rectifier go to the leads on the silicon unit marked AC or with a ~, wire from black dot goes to -, wire from red dot goes to +. If the case of the silicon unit isn't marked, the job is more difficult, but rectifiers can be tagged by using a DVM, if you want it, I can post the procedure for Identifying the pinout.

                            The other plus side of the silicon units is that you can buy at least 15 of them at radio shack for the price of one selenium from the big B.

                            Another note: when soldering a silicon unit in, you MUST use a heat sink of some variety to divert the heat from soldering away, those big fins on the selenium unit automatically heatsink it while you're soldering one of them!!!

                            Larry: By the way, if you hook up a DC coil (e.g. mag clutch) backwards, it will push instead of pull, making the mag clutch a nice ornament on your pinsetter, but very non-functional. That's the reason the mag clutch plug is polarized (one pin larger, so you can't inadvertently hook it up backwards)

                            One last item: Thanks to all who voted for me for tech of the year, you have no idea how honored I felt when Mike called me and said I had won. There is no bigger honor than one given by your peers, and you guys are ALL deserving. The best wrenchers in the business hang out here, and to be selected really blew me away

                            Kevin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: selenium rectifier

                              So, since I got to see firsthand one of the selenium units explode tonight (4th of July...) this thread is particularly interesting tonight. Does anyone have a personal favorite RadShack part number for rectifiers? It seems they've got tons of shapes and sizes... I'd be curious about what everyone is using for these, if they are... and personal tips and tricks for installing themm, although Kevin's got a pretty good description there already. Thanks in advance, as always,
                              Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

                              Comment

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