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  • Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

    This is a quick predecessor to the real thing here, for those who might be online tonight yet. Lane 8's been disengaging at 270 occasionally, started last year, replaced a few worn links, was OK for a while, did again, found more worn parts, OK for a while, started again recently... You could turn off the lane from up front, then back on, deck would come up, rake would come up, and all would be fine... only happened after first ball-no strike. Last night I rebuilt pretty much the entire clutch linkage assembly, replacing just about everything I cuuld replace. Now, it disengages (and stops) at 90, 180, and 270 on first ball, second ball works normally, but half the time recycles after setting pins, and then stops on a 90... Gots me plumb-a** flusterred... So, tonight, bowling on 3&4 (aka the lanes we put "the people we don't like..." along with 1 & 2... Older lanes...) because we were supposed to bowl on the other dead pair... Suprisingly, we're all kicking major butt, all-time highs for 3&4 I suspect... halfway through 3rd game, stops on a 90. Smack linkage to get clutch going again. Stops on 270. Smack linkage again, this time getting really irritated (big understatement!!!) gets to 360 and recycles... I was too pi**ed to stick around and determine 1st vs 2nd ball statistics on the thing, but it's a constant malfunction. I'm sure it's the same malfunction as lane 8, but I'm at a total loss as to what that root cause would be (gave up at 3AM last night... Screw it!) But now I've got ~two~ lanes needing the same fix, and I need 'em all up and running by Friday evening first shift. Of course there's no reference to a "stops on 90, 180, and 270" in the troubleshooting guide...

    It doesn't seem to matter if it's got a full deck or not, and the OOR is not holding the clutch open. Anyone got any instant ideas? I'm sure it's a binding linkage ~somewhere~ but ~WHERE~!?!?!?!? Everything in the near vacinity of the reset solenoid is perfectly clear and free. No binding.

    I just got home, and need to eat yet, but I wanted to give a brief summary for anyone on tonight. I'll give a more detailed description of what I replaced and cleaned a little later tonight (tomorrow AM..... )

    I'm hoping ~someone~ has seen this before, cuz I'm stuckin' fumped.......
    Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

  • #2
    Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

    OK, quick (???) addendum... Upon initial inspection of lane 8 last night, I noticed the clutch latch would catch under the clutch reset lever's pin approching 270, and drag the clutch actuator link down with it, and then stopping at (or real close to) 270, deck down, rake down, first ball only. I noticed that some machines had a large roller/bushing at the end of the reset lever, to catch the clutch latch. This one just had a small bolt all the way through it. I surmised that might be the problem, so I put it in. No help. I had the impression the reset lever's pin was being held upwards for some reason, and noticed it had been welded at some point in time. And was cracked, bent upwards. Yippee, found it! (Yeah right!) Replaced reset lever, no luck. Replaced it three times... One used off shelf, one new single arm, one new double arm. All had similar problems still. I kept the double arm'd one in there. I then replaced the clutch latch, thinking it may have become worn. The new one had it's flat surface (where roller catches on) actually ~lower~ than the worn out one. But it seemed to fit the assembly better, especially with the new, fat roller in the reset lever.

    (Quick aside, I'm using Bruns and Quality terms to identify the parts, just to make sure we're all on the same page... Much more precise than "the doohickey, or that bent-up $%%&@#%& #@$^%$@^##//.... That identifies way too many different parts, according to my naming technique used last night......)

    I then said screw it, it's all coming out. I dropped the 180 turret interlock link, pin detector link (at the 180 stop selector) OOR stuff, and all other recycle linkage on that side of the gearbox. I left the clutch lever and yoke assemblies in place. The roller on the clutch lever is free and smooth. I cleaned every item individually, replacing the cycle solenoid's plunger and link, starter bellcrank lever, plunger lever, clutch latch and "short connection", reset lever, "pin on reset lever", clutch actuator link, and the rollers on the "pin in clutch release lever" The new ones, with the new pin, didn't really seem too eager to spin, but that doesn't look like a critical area. Yes?? No?? The remainder of the assembly was cleaned and replaced. I re-checked the 180' turret interlock link, was right at 1/4 to start with, I made that a touch smaller with no changes in performance. I played with the snubber adjustment a bit, seemed to be a really touchy item... bring it up a touch and things keep going and going and going.... drop it just a touch, and things stop at 90, 180, 270.... frustrating. At 0, rake crank arm is in perfect position, bottom's even with the center of the 4:1. (newer style) No noticable binding in any of the clutch linkage. Things ran the same with the OOR lever on or off. (I got tired of taking it back off, so I left it off.....)

    What am I missing??? Since today another lane started doing the same thing, I'm beginning to think it's something incredibly stupid that's got me all riled up... But stupid or not, I need 'em running ASAP. (Oh, and to top off the good news, Friday is a to-capacity league, I bowl in it... Our other pinchaser reminded me tonight that he'd be gone that day....... figures translation: There's nobody to stand on the machines and babysit 'em... Not good.

    I'm leaning towards something going nuts in the detector, since that's really all there should be left. Is it possible for the timing cam's key to shear off in the 1:1 shaft? Could something there cause these symptoms?

    Right now, when it disengages, the reset solenoid will not trigger the machine to start, only smacking the stop arm out from under the clutch lever, or pushing down on the clutch actuator link can get it cycling again. I ~think~ (going on blurred memory now... frazzled!) the clutch actuator link was forward and above the clutch release lever's pin (*on 180 turret interlock link*) Pushing down on the clutch actuator link would seat that pin in the C shaped slot in the link, and drop the clutch latch under the pin on the reset lever. I ~think~ that's what was happening. But my question still remains... WHY???

    Hopefully the solution for lane 8 will also work for 4. I spent ~no~ diagnosis time on it tonight, was not in any kind of shape for it... I assessed the situation, moved the bowlers to the last running pair, and put a couple new dents in our old lockers in the back....... (Knuckle still a bit sore )

    I still want to market a settee mounted punching bag system..... Would save on tons of equipment... Just after we get lane 4 situation under control, I hear a huge crash on the other end of the building... Our brand new Bud Light mirror took a dive. No idea why, if someone kicked the wall or what, nobody saw or said. I just shook my head and closed my eyes... Chalked ~that~ one right up under the "not my @#$@#% job" department.....

    </digression> Any thoughts/clues/ideas/takers on this problem??? Anyone?

    Thanks a million, in advance, I'll be logging on at work tomorrow to see if anyone can send me some sanity... Right now I'm going back to the books (sigh...)
    Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

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    • #3
      Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

      Olds:

      I'd look at the position of the latch to the reset lever roller at 180 waiting for pins, the roller should be half-way up the step on the latch. Controlled by the collar on the oil bleeder on old machines, or the rubber bumper on newer ones... forgot the age of your machines??

      Also, on the newer ones, sometimes the metal piece that rests on the rubber bumper cracks/breaks off, but that should cause constant re-cycles, not constant stops. Basically, if the latch is getting in anywhere but 0, I'd suspect that the collar (on machines that have them) is down too far or the bumper (if you have them) is too high.

      Another possibility would be a stretched or broken wire link for the overtravel if yours still work, but that usually only causes the stop at 90 on first ball

      Kevin

      [This message has been edited by KL Kevin (edited 10-21-1999).]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

        Could be a weak spring on the dashpot. Cycle the machine and see if it floates up and down. Make shure you have the right spring.If you have the dash pot use the A spring.

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        • #5
          Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

          No dashpot, these are newer ones with snubbers. I'm just getting ready to climb in right now, wish me luck!
          Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

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          • #6
            Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

            Kevin, that snubber adjustment is exactly what I needed. Much more accurate that Brunswick's description. I think our book came out just after the snubbers, they ~mention~ the difference between 'em, but not much more detailed on the adjustments. 8 WORKS!!! I go over to 4 and try same adjustment, since it's doing the same thing. Can't get the snubber low enough to line up correctly. Just about to grind it off, and sanity sets back in. Something else is causing this. The follower/roller on the clutch release lever had broken off, setting the pin that much higher in the links, and not moving. Period. Swapped 'er out, and we have 12 lanes again! (For now.....)

            <gasp!> I'm ready for bed! But the double-shift is just starting

            Thanks a million, my sanity's saved!!!
            Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

              Sometimes when the drip pans have been removed and replaced they catch the 180 interlock lever and you can have some screwy gear box stops. I temporarily take it off if there is that kind of problem. diggermastermech

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              • #8
                Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

                Gentlemen:
                Isn't this a great forum.
                Where else could you find such a stream of experience, without paying 35 dollars a phone call?" We Band Of Brothers", only those in the back know what that means, it's been that way since B-10S.
                rfm

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

                  Good job guys on the repair info.
                  One think I do remember coming across was that if the 180 link was adjusted too low the machine would stop in 270.
                  Just another tip to log in the memory banks.
                  GRAMBO

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quirky Recycle/disengaging clutch problems

                    Oldsmagnet,
                    Just wandering if you have had any luck in problem...I had a couple of questions
                    What model pinsetter do you have and what speed is it running.
                    Peanut

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