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Fail to index after 5


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  • Fail to index after 5

    Okay, I was chatting with a few guys last night about this... but I'd like to get as much input from all on the matter.

    I have a machine that drops the 5 pin through the chute but fails to index (causing a 180). So when I get to the pinsetter the 5 is down and the other 9 are sitting on the spoons forever. I simply move the spoons out of the way, and she goes back to work. This problem is very intermittent, and the first time it happened we found the indexing cam was loose. But then it did it again... and the cam is tight. We've been thinking that it could be the torsion latch on the time delay gear that's binding up. What are the chances of that?

    Thanks guys,

    [This message has been edited by Jambu (edited 01-24-2000).]

  • #2
    Re: Fail to index after 5

    your problem sounds like it's more related to the releasing of the spider rather than the turret failing to index after the 5. If it was just a no index after the 5, the whole deck would have pins rather than just the 5 bucket. It sounds like the 5 pin is making it's way down the turret 5 chute and failing to fully press the release lever on its way down, or it is, but the spider is being restricted somehow.
    I had this same problem on one of our pinsetters. Drives you batty, cause you rarely "see" it happen.
    Here's couple things to check. I hope this can help.
    1) Take the turret and let the cross conveyor fill it up, and lock the pingate when the 5 chute lines up with cross conveyor. Slowly press on the release lever by hand inside the turret 5 chute, and watch what happens. See if your blocking fingers are only allowing the probe to come back far enough to let the 5 pin squeak by the release lever without fully opening the latch. If yes, adj. blocking fingers or probe height as needed.
    2) It might be as simple as a turret wire rubbing on a spoon. When the 5 pin drops, the binding of a loop on the bottom of a turret wire against a spoon will hold the spider dead closed. To check this, pull the release probe to open the latch, and try moving the spider/spoons assembly by hand. If it feels rough, check for binds. I'm thinking this is it. It pretty common sometimes, especially on the 1,7,10 inner wires.
    3) Over the years, the release lever inside the turret 5 chute takes a beating from when it has to hold the 5 pin if the deck is not ready for pins. Make sure the release lever has not bent even more than it's natural curve. If it has, it may allow the 5 pin to sneak past without moving the release lever 100%.
    4) Check spider roller bearings. We had an old turret spider with bearings which had flat spots worn into them. Every now and then the spider would stay open, or sometimes not open at all. Had to replace the bearings.

    good luck. Hope you find it. Sometimes it's the minor problems which really get your goat.


    • #3
      Re: Fail to index after 5

      Thanks for the wealth of information Matty. In the grand scheme of things, I'm still a baby when it comes to troubleshooting pinsetters. The head mechanic here is very wise in the ways of the force, but I'm still trying to figure easy stuff like this out. I'll search for 2 hours to no avail... then he'll walk in and diagnose the sucker in 2 minutes. Prime example.. I had an electrical nightmare about 2 months ago on a pinsetter. He came in, climbed on top of the machine, and said "Smells like ****... must be the celenium rectifier". I must have screwed with that A/P for 3 hours before he got there! And all the while I thought I needed a bath.

      Thanks again... I'll check it out.



      • #4
        Re: Fail to index after 5

        Okay... I checked it out. You were dead-on nuts, Matty. The #1 basket inner turret wires were rubbing on the spoons. I can't believe I didn't think of that.

        Thanks again,


        • #5
          Re: Fail to index after 5

          Hey Jambu, glad you found the problem, just wanted to let you know of something. You were right about the torsion latch binding.
          I have seen many spiders not releasing due to the torsion latch. Just place a little dab of grease on the torsion latch where it makes contact with the block on the time delay gear. The way to tell if this is your problem is to look at the lever that trips your time delay gear, if the 5 pin fell through the metal chute but the other pins didn't fall to the deck, this lever will be resting against the torsion latch.
          Shut your pin wheel off at the magnetic clutch micro and with the machine running (important) trip the torsion latch by hand several times (Watch your fingers) and see if it takes a lot of effort to trip it. If it does, then you found your problem.

          [This message has been edited by Charles Heuer (edited 01-26-2000).]


          • #6
            Re: Fail to index after 5

            Funny you should bring that up, Charles. Indeed the #1 inner turret wire was rubbing on the spoon.. and I changed that out. So I came into work the next day and told my boss about it and how I fixed it. He started laughing, and told me it happened again that morning.

            Anyway, he did exactly what you had suggested, and now it's all good. Not to say that the turret wire wasn't part of the problem, but it must have been a combination of both. Thanks again guys.



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