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  • pinsetter motor control kit?

    ok. if you look at pages 202-205 in the brunswick service parts catalog you'll see the pinsetter motor control kit. my first question is ...does this thing actually exist? i've never seen or heard of a center that has these(maybe i'm sheltered..lol). my second question is what does it do? is it similar to the bowl-tronics motor saver, or is it something completely different?and my last question, do they actually do what they're suppose to do or is it just a bad idea? i figured with all of the knowledge in this forum, you guys would know, thanks, shamefowjze
    Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
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  • #2
    Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

    Shamefoweze:
    These and many others similar, have been tried since the late sixties, all have one thing in common, they create more problems than they solve. Indeed, one can tell by the number of motors laying around a shop, that it was tried in that establishment. Many dollars were spent by various manufs. using magnetic clutches, etc, only to find ultimately, that it just does not fly in the long run.
    Roscoe:
    rfm

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

      shamefowjze,
      I have some of the Bowltronics PS-1 Kit version of what you are looking at. I would't give them up if you paid me. I have made a small addition to there wiring instructions. Currently, they will not sell the "kit" that I have been installing. They told me too many people were having trouble with them. I've learned the trick to sucsess with these devices is the length of the delay to turn off the motor. Too short and you'll have motors lying around your shop with melted windings and bad capacitors like Roscoe said. I've had no problems with mine. E-mail me and I'll let you know more about their benefits.

      Steve

      [This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 05-12-2000).]
      TSM & TSM Training Development
      Main Event Entertainment
      480-620-6758 for help or information

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

        JBEES, I ALSO HAVE THE PS1 MOTOR CONTROL ON ABOUT 10 OUT OF MY 32 PINSETTERS AT THE TIME.SO FAR I LOVE THEM AND HAVE HAD NO MOTOR PROBLEMS AT ALL.HAVE HAD ONE ON ABOUT 3 YEARS NOW AND NO PROBLEMS.AND IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG WITH THE UNIT IT WONT COST YOU DOWNTIME,JUST PLUG THE MOTOR BACK INTO THE ORIGINAL RECEPTICAL.
        Its just a matter of time until something will go wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

          Charlie:
          If you are hooked to a demand meter, you would soon see the fallacy, give yourself another five years, You will then see the fallacy. All pinsetter motors have a 45 amp start load, whilst being in the free running state. Put a amp meter on the motor and see what it starts at under a clutch that is already engaged. Electronics are great, but they do not change OHMS Law, which you are running under, as long as you are using a standard pinsetter motor, which is goverened by same.
          Roscoe
          rfm

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

            Shamfowje
            I'm not a big fan of these devices either.If they are not well designed they not only burn out motors but can cause other problems as well such as pingate locks,turn pan jams etc because of shutting the motors off at the wrong time.Since I've been lucky enough to never have had to really worry about the power bill or my parts budget I have never spent much time looking into them.
            With that said I would however recommend that you call c-sexton and check to see what he has .If there is a good one on the market he would probably know about it and could give you some insight .Also you might call IRVINE LANES in IRVINE California(sorry I don't have the number handy) ask for KEVIN he works like 8-4 ,he is the headmechanic,he has one that he likes on all 40 of his lanes and has had good luck with them.
            As for ohm's law (e=ixr)that only applies on resistive loads,motors are inductive loads.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

              The PS-1 is a good idea but.....motors do not like being started under load in which this is being done.These are continuous run motors not intermittent run motors,they are designed for continuous running.If you start your car in 0 degree temps.then hit the gas pedal it does'nt like it now does it?Have seen these things fry out the windings to often due to it's going on under load.If you sit and listen to the motor start you hear a whine like sound when gearbox is engauged meaning...motor is under load/strain.,in time....you too shall have motors collecting dust in the shop.Just give them time!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                nighthawk...how much time? I'm at 4 years on motors that are 43 years old now...Motors turn on when bowlers first bowl and very rareley shut off until they are done. Sometimes they sit there 20 minutes(or even more depending on who's working the desk) before being shut off. Other centers I've installed them at put some at 8 years with them on and no problems yet. Have also come up with a circuit that turns motor on with electronic triggering before the clutch engages...still experimental...but no problems with it yet. Interested folks can e-mail me and I will send you a schematic. Biggest trick is to have the delay turned to its max...that way it shuts down when the bowlers are done or at least not bowling for awhile. I may be all wet here, but this idea is something I've been playing with for years now and have seen no adverse affects when using some common sense with the timing. Granted-the jury is still out on this...but it will probably always be that way and remain controversial. I for one, am very pleased with the device. (and I'm NOT a big fan of Bowl-tronics equipment - but this one is a winner for me). I guess I've ranted and raved enough...sorry for getting so fired up.

                Steve
                TSM & TSM Training Development
                Main Event Entertainment
                480-620-6758 for help or information

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                  why do you guys have so many motors laying around? i have a local guy that fixes them right up . the price is right too.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                    motors 11 years old at this center but who knows how old they really are.Timers are set at max of 90 seconds.Question...whats the differance between the ps-1 that mounts to the wire channel versus the electrical cabinet mount unit??Have seen 2 models listed.We have the wire channel model.But system in use here for over 2 years and "supposedly"motors were rebuilt,but all i could find out is the bearings were only really worked on so that may be the whole problem here.,dont think they were ever really rebuilt completely,just bearings,brushes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                      nighthawk...only difference is cost. you don't get another receptacle with the PS-1 kit. the other difference is looks...you don't have a big box hanging down under your wire channel. i wire everything inside the channel instead of outside so everything looks factory. i also get 2 minutes on my delay...

                      what "brushes" do you replace in your motors?
                      TSM & TSM Training Development
                      Main Event Entertainment
                      480-620-6758 for help or information

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                        Hey David
                        You are partially right on the ohms law part.
                        When the motor is STARTING it also has the capacitors on the start windings which makes a REACTIVE circuit.
                        Mr. Ohm must have been a smart man because there is also an ohms law formula for reactive circuits.
                        I think though when the motor is just running the windings act as a coil(inductance)and that is covered under basic ohms law.
                        If a circuit has ONLY inductance or capacitance then it is basic ohms law.
                        Just something I learned from all this schooling they send me too.
                        Grambo.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                          David:
                          As amperage is a product, with one of its factors being resistance, George S' law is applicable. Watts equals volts times amps.
                          Unless you are running your motors for free, I would state, your goverened by this law.
                          Respectfully
                          Roscoe
                          rfm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                            The following is from <a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.astronomysite.com" target="_blank">http://www.astronomysite.com</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
                            subject Ohm's law correction.
                            "Yes ohms law does not really apply in this circuit.When a motor is stopped and the power is switched on then the current flowing at that instant is limited by the dc resistance of the windings.As the motor begins to turn it becomes a generator that generates back emf that tries to negate the supply source so that current drops off very rapidly."I think the starting and stopping of pinsetter motors with motor kits probably does shorten thier life but its not because of sir george and his law.I've just noticed that they have linked us to the site.If anyone wanted to read the article hit mapug,then vol#1browse,then december1995,then wed.december 6.The main part of the letter is concerning a telescope motor and is boring but the 1st couple of paragraphs covers our subject.

                            [This message has been edited by David Johnson (edited 05-27-2000).]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: pinsetter motor control kit?

                              Not to beat this motor kit subject to death but like I said several times already I'm not a big fan of these devices, some people are and thats their choice but I find it interesting to note that on the new GSX pinsetter(the earlier model may do the same I don't know for sure)the engineers are turning off the distributor motor after 45 seconds of inactivity.Think how many extra start ups that will put on the motors.Maybe its a intermittant duty motor doubt it but not sure.

                              [This message has been edited by David Johnson (edited 05-28-2000).]

                              Comment

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