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  • 4:1 Broken Key

    I have a couple of machines that have a broken key inside the Brass 60:1 gear.I know because of the way the rake crank lifts up and down.My question is,Do you guys agree that it will cause intermident occasional rake sweep hook release problems and cause a deck jam at 0 degrees with a full deck? Im looking for opinions because I get in a locked up discussion with my boss over this,he says it dont cause problems.And I disagree,I know when brass gear is worn on the teeth rake crank moves too but i already replaced one 4:1 with a broken key and this problem went away with it.Please give me some feedback.Thanks...:- )

    ------------------
    John
    John

  • #2
    Re: 4:1 Broken Key

    if the gear slips it will throw the crank out of time with rake lacth. also the deck will shift forward when the machine cycles and you would get jams.

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    • #3
      Re: 4:1 Broken Key

      If the problem is a worn keyway on the worm wheel, you will see no change in anything beyond the connection between the worm wheel and the 4:1 shaft itself...there is no play between the 4:1, 2:1, 1:1 or the detector main shaft. The problem you're describing comes from a change in relative timing (ie play between gears) between the 4:1 and the 1:1. If you can pull up and down on the crank arm, then something is loose between the crank arm and the worm shaft...not the 1:1. Your problem with the intermittent rake release problem may stem from a hook that isn't 5/16th inch above the block or the rake stops being too close in their adjustment. The blackout problem is probably due to the 1:1 stopping just short of 0 degrees. This could be caused by play between the crank arm and the 1:1. The crank arm may show exactly 0 degrees, but the 1:1 may still be short of "0 degrees". We have all been taught to adjust gear boxes to 0 degrees by the height of the crank arm. Over time, gears wear...keys wear...keyways wear and soon enough there is enough play between your crank arm and 1:1 that 0 degrees for the crank arm and 0 degrees for the 1:1 are no longer the same...but its not from wear in the worm wheel. Try adjusting your gearbox to your 1:1 if you are having alot of problems...stop it when the moving deck cable stops moving. Call that 0 degrees. That will stop your blackout problems until you can find your wear problem...it will mean your crank arm will be a little high when it stops. A small price to pay to stop blackouts. Sorry to burst your theory...but your mechanic is basically correct.

      Steve

      [This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 06-04-2000).]
      TSM & TSM Training Development
      Main Event Entertainment
      480-620-6758 for help or information

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      • #4
        Re: 4:1 Broken Key

        How much play are you talking about?I've had many broken key in 4-1 that I could move almost a inch and yet never had a call on the machine.I wonder if you don't have some other problems along with a broken key.

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        • #5
          Re: 4:1 Broken Key

          Im talking about the key on 4:1 inside the brass gear being basically totally shattered and almost gone was the last one i saw to where the brass was moving on shaft.And I think this causes weird-ass problems like i said.Most 4:1s never get this bad but these machines have been neglected on gearbox work.And I'm aware of the ajustment to 0 degrees due to sloppy gears ect.But still probs persist.

          ------------------
          John
          John

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          • #6
            Re: 4:1 Broken Key

            Hey John
            I would think that the key that holds the 4-1 spur gear being broken would cause some problems.
            If it is one long key that holds both the worm wheel and the spur gear than yes
            I think the broken key could cause rake hook problems because the crank rod might be a little out of time when the gear slips.
            Try adjusting the crank rod out a little farther to give the hook more time to release.
            It is possible it could also be affecting gearbox stopping at zero because the clutch yoke is actuated by the cam on the 4-1 shaft.
            If you have more than one lane like this talk your boss into changing one and see if the problems go away on that lane to prove your theory.

            Grambo

            [This message has been edited by GRAMBO (edited 06-04-2000).]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 4:1 Broken Key

              Grambo brought up a good point...when you move the crank arm up and down...does the 2:1 move with it or does it stay still. All 4:1's I have seen shatter the key only at the worm wheel. If the key were to shatter all the way to the spur gear...then you would have play between the crank arm amd the 1:1. If it didn't shatter to the spur gear, then there would be no relative change in timing between the crank arm and the 1:1. Haven't seen this happen in 20 years...but I suppose it is possible.

              Steve
              TSM & TSM Training Development
              Main Event Entertainment
              480-620-6758 for help or information

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 4:1 Broken Key

                I'd be more suspect of the key in the 1/1 under the circumstances ... could cause the MD/Scissor cam to lag behind, and also the hook selector (entire detector actually).

                Does the rake nose-dive towards the pindeck when the moving deck shifts? ... The tell-tale sign.

                Kevin

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